Worcester’s woes

[CrumblingTerrace]

And yet...

... many involved in Prem Rugby (our Andrea being an exception) still feel the right thing to do is to raise the salary cap by £1.4m after next season. How many clubs will still be alive by the time that comes around?

[TigerFeetSteve]

I do have strong views over this matter, but trying to just post facts on this.

London Irish, did take a big financial hit over signing their current fly half. They lost one of their major sponsors over it.

https://news.sky.com/story/guinness-end ... n-11741735


Now this was pre-pandemic, but without a home stadium it is notable that sponsorship is an even more important part of their revenue streams.

[ourla]

Should it be a pre-requisite that you own your ground given that it's critical to revenue?

I'm not as close to the finances of clubs as others might be so maybe that question is poppycock...

[TTRITH]

And yet...

... many involved in Prem Rugby (our Andrea being an exception) still feel the right thing to do is to raise the salary cap by £1.4m after next season. How many clubs will still be alive by the time that comes around?

Of course Bristol, Saracens, and others with deep pockets will keep peddling this line.

They'll probably be the ones that last the longest and then can form the new franchises/regions...

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

I do have strong views over this matter, but trying to just post facts on this.

London Irish, did take a big financial hit over signing their current fly half. They lost one of their major sponsors over it.

https://news.sky.com/story/guinness-end ... n-11741735


Now this was pre-pandemic, but without a home stadium it is notable that sponsorship is an even more important part of their revenue streams.

A lot of us have a view on this particular player...... upsetting your primary sponsor is never a good idea.

[TigerFeetSteve]

Should it be a pre-requisite that you own your ground given that it's critical to revenue?

I'm not as close to the finances of clubs as others might be so maybe that question is poppycock...

Worcester owned their ground.

Wasps owned their ground.

Sale don't own their ground.

In my opinion you don't need to own the ground what you need is a business plan that fits how you are set up.

A London club renting a ground is quite different to Sale renting their ground for example

[GB72]

And yet...

... many involved in Prem Rugby (our Andrea being an exception) still feel the right thing to do is to raise the salary cap by £1.4m after next season. How many clubs will still be alive by the time that comes around?

This is just a selfish approach to try and create a financial arms race with no thought on the wider picture. If you can spend more and the others cannot, you win more and that is the only concern to some. And if the Prem collapses, well those teams left standing go cap in hand to another league looking for a place.

I do not know what the answer is. The TV deal is not going to get significantly bigger, I cannot see the crowds increasing, the RFU have no interest in promoting the club game. Sadly, I am have pretty much reached the conclusion that there is no solution that leaves club rugby anywhere near what it is now.

[TigerFeetSteve]

I do have strong views over this matter, but trying to just post facts on this.

London Irish, did take a big financial hit over signing their current fly half. They lost one of their major sponsors over it.

https://news.sky.com/story/guinness-end ... n-11741735


Now this was pre-pandemic, but without a home stadium it is notable that sponsorship is an even more important part of their revenue streams.

A lot of us have a view on this particular player...... upsetting your primary sponsor is never a good idea.

Let's put it this way if a load of LI players become available. There is one I would not touch with a barge pole....

[Rugbygramps]

Should it be a pre-requisite that you own your ground given that it's critical to revenue?

I'm not as close to the finances of clubs as others might be so maybe that question is poppycock...

Worcester owned their ground.

Wasps owned their ground.

Sale don't own their ground.

In my opinion you don't need to own the ground what you need is a business plan that fits how you are set up.

A London club renting a ground is quite different to Sale renting their ground for example

Although technically correct to say Wasps owned their ground is a little misleading that’s what got them into all the trouble

[Rugbygramps]

I do have strong views over this matter, but trying to just post facts on this.

London Irish, did take a big financial hit over signing their current fly half. They lost one of their major sponsors over it.

https://news.sky.com/story/guinness-end ... n-11741735


Now this was pre-pandemic, but without a home stadium it is notable that sponsorship is an even more important part of their revenue streams.

A lot of us have a view on this particular player...... upsetting your primary sponsor is never a good idea.

Let's put it this way if a load of LI players become available. There is one I would not touch with a barge pole....

Never been comfortable with it never will be and all seems to have been forgotten now

[Darc Tiger]

The Irish situation probably deserves its own thread at this point

[ourla]

Should it be a pre-requisite that you own your ground given that it's critical to revenue?

I'm not as close to the finances of clubs as others might be so maybe that question is poppycock...

Worcester owned their ground.

Wasps owned their ground.

Sale don't own their ground.

In my opinion you don't need to own the ground what you need is a business plan that fits how you are set up.

A London club renting a ground is quite different to Sale renting their ground for example

Fair points. So then how can we ensure business plans are sound?

If there is no general criteria... or is there?

From what I read a lot of the Wasps and Worcester situations could have been foreseen but I guess the owners will always argue about external factors - pandemic, broader economy, group negotiated tv deals....

[GB72]

I think that this is the most worrying of the 3. Worcester had cowboy owners and Wasps had the suicidal bond issue and move to Coventry. Nothing about Irish suggests that this is anything other than a club not making enough money to keep going. The hope is that is just a blip due to the takeover but this could be problems with no glaring issue being the cause.

[Rugbygramps]

I think that this is the most worrying of the 3. Worcester had cowboy owners and Wasps had the suicidal bond issue and move to Coventry. Nothing about Irish suggests that this is anything other than a club not making enough money to keep going. The hope is that is just a blip due to the takeover but this could be problems with no glaring issue being the cause.

Going to have to stop agreeing with you. Although both financially based there was a big difference with what happened to Worcester and Wasps.

If anything does happen to Irish, and obviously hope it doesn’t, for me it comes down to their choice of home in Brentford. I understand that with them not owning their ground their choices would have been severely limited, but to end up where they did, imho was asking for trouble and was always going to be difficult to sustain.

Left field question would a merger between Irish and Ealing be feasible

[tigerburnie]

I think that this is the most worrying of the 3. Worcester had cowboy owners and Wasps had the suicidal bond issue and move to Coventry. Nothing about Irish suggests that this is anything other than a club not making enough money to keep going. The hope is that is just a blip due to the takeover but this could be problems with no glaring issue being the cause.

Going to have to stop agreeing with you. Although both financially based there was a big difference with what happened to Worcester and Wasps.

If anything does happen to Irish, and obviously hope it doesn’t, for me it comes down to their choice of home in Brentford. I understand that with them not owning their ground their choices would have been severely limited, but to end up where they did, imho was asking for trouble and was always going to be difficult to sustain.

Left field question would a merger between Irish and Ealing be feasible

Ealing ground does not meet PRL minimum standard.