Worcester’s woes

Forum to discuss everything that is Tigers related

Moderators: Tigerbeat, Rizzo, Tigers Press Office, Tigers Webmaster

Post Reply
Ian Cant
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1894
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 10:51 am

Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by Ian Cant »

Just to lift the gloom: Gloucester apparently made £1 million profit last year!
If they did, then clubs need to find out how.
Central contracts won’t work! To get international standard players England need the clubs playing in a strong competitive league. Look at our crop of youngsters: Steward, Martin, Chessum, JVP have become very good players due to playing in The Premiership and being well coached by Steve Borthwick and his excellent team. The Premiership Clubs in turn need the schools and junior clubs.
Tigers now have the opportunity to really promote the club through being Champions and their young stars. Years ago players like Pat Howard, Richard Cockerill, Tim Stimpson etc came out to help with the coaching of Tag Rugby.
They came on a regular basis, this meant my after school Tag Rugby Clubs increased by about 40%. The other side to this was as we won many tournaments the parents too got interested and this resulted in more and more families going to Tigers’ games and quite a few became season ticket holders. I had previously coached contact rugby with primary aged children, often having to play against high schools and Oakham C of E. Melton Rugby Club, through Brian Hesford were always very supportive but the real upturn was when the Tigers’ players started visiting schools. We now have such an opportunity to promote Tigers through our fantastic youngsters. The evidence was there v Saints: young children with their parents being thrilled by JVP, Freddie Burns, Hanro and many of the team going round the pitch at the end of the game to sign autographs and pose for photos.
The clubs can thrive IF they get out into the community to promote the clubs and the game. Worcester and Wasps will hopefully survive: in Wasps case they need to get back to their roots and get a proper fan base.
Rugbygramps
Super User
Super User
Posts: 7197
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:29 pm

Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by Rugbygramps »

Ian Cant wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:31 pm Just to lift the gloom: Gloucester apparently made £1 million profit last year!
If they did, then clubs need to find out how.
Central contracts won’t work! To get international standard players England need the clubs playing in a strong competitive league. Look at our crop of youngsters: Steward, Martin, Chessum, JVP have become very good players due to playing in The Premiership and being well coached by Steve Borthwick and his excellent team. The Premiership Clubs in turn need the schools and junior clubs.
Tigers now have the opportunity to really promote the club through being Champions and their young stars. Years ago players like Pat Howard, Richard Cockerill, Tim Stimpson etc came out to help with the coaching of Tag Rugby.
They came on a regular basis, this meant my after school Tag Rugby Clubs increased by about 40%. The other side to this was as we won many tournaments the parents too got interested and this resulted in more and more families going to Tigers’ games and quite a few became season ticket holders. I had previously coached contact rugby with primary aged children, often having to play against high schools and Oakham C of E. Melton Rugby Club, through Brian Hesford were always very supportive but the real upturn was when the Tigers’ players started visiting schools. We now have such an opportunity to promote Tigers through our fantastic youngsters. The evidence was there v Saints: young children with their parents being thrilled by JVP, Freddie Burns, Hanro and many of the team going round the pitch at the end of the game to sign autographs and pose for photos.
The clubs can thrive IF they get out into the community to promote the clubs and the game. Worcester and Wasps will hopefully survive: in Wasps case they need to get back to their roots and get a proper fan base.
As nice as your ideas are Ian that was probably 15-20 years ago. Different times different priorities different drains on resources. How many after school clubs are there now, how many purely state schools play rugby.
You say central contracts won’t work, personally I don’t want to see them, but the times you are talking about were at the start of the professional era, and getting a few players, who’s time is very carefully allocated, to go to none Tigers organised events needs a lot of paperwork, risk assessments etc.
I’m afraid something a little more radical is required, particularly when you consider the image of the sport isn’t great, with there being far more bad news stories than good.
Old Hob
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4095
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:15 pm

Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by Old Hob »

jgriffin wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:25 pm Once Wasps and Wuss are relegated, my money on Cardiff and one other region, prob Scarlets.
I don't understand why the Prem is thinking of 2 regions. Why not 1 and a sensible 12 team league?
Presumably, it couldn't happen this season or it would wreck the URC.
Omnia dicta fortiora si dicta Latina
Old Hob
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4095
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:15 pm

Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by Old Hob »

The original purchase; some of this has been aired on here but not all, I think.

https://mobile.twitter.com/evans_marke/ ... VMjY-BhqxQ
Omnia dicta fortiora si dicta Latina
jgriffin
Super User
Super User
Posts: 8074
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:49 pm
Location: On the edge of oblivion

Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by jgriffin »

Wuss players are apparently contracted to a different company, which hasn't gone into administration, so they are stuck waiting to see if they're paid. if not they still have up to a month before they can officially move to another club. Desperate times.
Leicester Tigers 1995-
Nottingham 1995-2000
Swansea (Whites) 1988-95
A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.
Rugbygramps
Super User
Super User
Posts: 7197
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:29 pm

Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by Rugbygramps »

Not knowledgeable at all, but would I be right in saying that the administrator is appointed on behalf of the creditors and therefore the off loading of a couple of large salaries would be to the creditors benefit.
TigerFeetSteve
Super User
Super User
Posts: 7355
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:23 am

Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

Rugbygramps wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:04 am Not knowledgeable at all, but would I be right in saying that the administrator is appointed on behalf of the creditors and therefore the off loading of a couple of large salaries would be to the creditors benefit.
Correct. The administrator's primary purpose is to maximise what creditors can be paid, however this is where it appears the current Worcester owners have played a fast one as they have only put one company into administration. Administrators can if it hasn't been done properly still access improperly transferred assests (eg the stadium or players) but they have to unravel the paperwork first.

So as it stands the administrators can't release the players from their contracts until they say prove that "WRFC players" (the company that officially employs the players) is a subsidiary of "WRFC trading" (the company that's in administration)
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.
ads
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1500
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: Born Leic, Live Leeds

Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by ads »

What a load of :censored:. Those two idiots thatbought Worcester should never be alowed to own a company again.
jgriffin
Super User
Super User
Posts: 8074
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:49 pm
Location: On the edge of oblivion

Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by jgriffin »

ads wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:39 am What a load of :censored:. Those two idiots thatbought Worcester should never be alowed to own a company again.
They are most definitely not idiots. This is standard asset stripping by hedge fund tactics (NHS privatisation as well, some FE colleges post 1993), they just haven't done it as well as they could have, it seems.
Take a single organisation, divide it into various assets (e.g. team, ground, surrounds, training, housing). Create multiple companies, hiving each asset off into a separate company. Borrow money against assets, then transfer it to a newly-created parent company offshore, and loan back the money to the UK version, t be repaid as debt (evading tax as operating at a loss), etc etc. Finally, squirrel all the money you've paid yourself offshore or even transfer to the spouse who lives offshore (as Phillip Green did).
Hence the players are currently stuffed, good and proper. I hope they get their hands on those two cowboys. :smt013
Leicester Tigers 1995-
Nottingham 1995-2000
Swansea (Whites) 1988-95
A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.
Wes
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 122
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:07 pm
Location: Bath

Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by Wes »

It gets worse....

The players are actually paid by a different company, 'WRFC Players Ltd'. This is separate to the club that went into administration. So the contracts may be with a club (company) in administration or may be with a company that is still trading.
One guess who owes the Players Ltd company? Yes, the same 2 scummers. I really feel for the players, they are young sportmen without any business experience. I do wonder what the hell the agents and the governing bodies are playing at. Totally not fot for purpose...
I only live there to wind up the population!
wigworth
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1231
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:12 pm

Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by wigworth »

Does anyone know if Tigers or any other clubs are set up in similar ways? I would imagine that they could well be.
sk 88
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 917
Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 5:33 pm

Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by sk 88 »

wigworth wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:55 pm Does anyone know if Tigers or any other clubs are set up in similar ways? I would imagine that they could well be.
Worcester have been set up this way since the 90s when they started paying players. Originally it was a way of housing the risk of players contracts away from the rest of the community club (that plays on a back pitch with its own clubhouse on the sixways site now).

No other club, to my knowledge, has a similar set up.
Goooooodeeeeeyyyyy!
Rugbygramps
Super User
Super User
Posts: 7197
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:29 pm

Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by Rugbygramps »

Sort of in this thread, in terms of making the game more attractive, and getting more spectators.
In the Big Jim show with the Youngs boys, Lenny was saying how he feels that the pendulum has swung too far to defence.
He particularly dislikes the new held up over the line, where the defending team gets a goal line drop out. He cited the incident during the Exeter match when Burns was in the bin and Lenny grubbered the ball into the Exeter dead ball area as he knew it would use up some of the sin bin period.

His job as he says is to win rugby matches.
GB72
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1439
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:44 pm

Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by GB72 »

I am still in support of a far greater use of social media. We get some htat will appear to existing fans but nothing that is going to grab the attention of new young fans. Get the influencers, the instagrammers, the tik tokkers the lot into the ground posting live streams etc. These people know how to reach out to a social media audience and get their attention and all at the cost of a few tickets.

And before the comments about 'I do not use social media' or ' that would not do anything for me' it is not meant for us, it is meant to try and find a new audience. This is, basically, the modern version of sending players out to schools that was mentioned earlier. Rugby clubs have, in my eyes, traditioanally been run behind closed doors and need to change as it is all now about access. The behind the scenes streaming documentaries on other sports have done wonders and rugby needs to get on that train.
wigworth
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1231
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:12 pm

Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by wigworth »

GB72 wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:53 am I am still in support of a far greater use of social media. We get some htat will appear to existing fans but nothing that is going to grab the attention of new young fans. Get the influencers, the instagrammers, the tik tokkers the lot into the ground posting live streams etc. These people know how to reach out to a social media audience and get their attention and all at the cost of a few tickets.

And before the comments about 'I do not use social media' or ' that would not do anything for me' it is not meant for us, it is meant to try and find a new audience. This is, basically, the modern version of sending players out to schools that was mentioned earlier. Rugby clubs have, in my eyes, traditioanally been run behind closed doors and need to change as it is all now about access. The behind the scenes streaming documentaries on other sports have done wonders and rugby needs to get on that train.
This is something the NFL does very well, either through NFL films, the tv series Hard Knocks or now on social media. Rugby Pass seem to be the only source of this sort of content for rugby fans and it is generally pretty good but it doesn't seem to get the push it needs to reach a wider audience outside of those already watching the sport.

The Rising Sons series of videos that England put out during the last world cup was really amazing and it would have been awesome to see it reach a wider audience as I am sure it would have had a large impact in getting people into the sport.
Post Reply