Worcester’s woes

Forum to discuss everything that is Tigers related

Moderators: Tigerbeat, Rizzo, Tigers Press Office, Tigers Webmaster

Post Reply
loretta
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1729
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:31 pm
Location: With the PFJ

Worcester’s woes

Post by loretta »

From the Torygraph.

“ Worcester Warriors have been hit by a winding-up petition from HM Revenue & Customs over an unpaid tax bill, Telegraph Sport can reveal.

The taxman is seeking the Premiership club’s liquidation at a court hearing that could take place within weeks unless the club settles the debt.”

Behind a paywall, I’m afraid. Wasps not the only ones in a hole
In my defence, I was left unsupervised….
Scott1
Super User
Super User
Posts: 16756
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:03 pm

Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by Scott1 »

Are we getting ever so closer to franchises? That’s when I walk away from the club game over here!
"Rugby isn't a contact sport,ballroom dancing is a contact sport. Rugby is a collision sport" Heyneke Meyer
TigerFeetSteve
Super User
Super User
Posts: 7357
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:23 am

Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

https://archive.ph/mIKpf

Link to the article minus the paywall
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.
GB72
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1439
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:44 pm

Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by GB72 »

If we cannot find a dozen or so teams that can manage themselves financially then that could be where we end up. Maybe time to assess membership of the top tier of the club game based on finances and attendance. Then again, have we got any more clubs that can step up that would fulfil that criteria.
Rugbygramps
Super User
Super User
Posts: 7198
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:29 pm

Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by Rugbygramps »

In any business the first man you keep happy is the tax man, and if they haven’t done this things must be serious.

Future of the game either franchise or regional who knows but something has to change. 2 clubs in dire financial straits, a 100 plus players unable to get contracts, sounds broken to me.

Maybe look at the New Zealand system, with regional sides and the during international periods a high standard 2nd tier league to be played with tv coverage.
I know this would upset many supporters but if we’re not in recession yet we soon will be, and more clubs will fold.
GB72
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1439
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:44 pm

Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by GB72 »

Sadly change may be necessary. Aside from Exeter, rugby has never been able to finance itself and has been reliant on generous benefactors to survive. We have been lucky that our support has allowed us to survive (just about at times) without a sugar daddy.

That said, we still get the thin end of the wedge i suspect. Other clubs can guarantee a pretty decent income from travelling Tigers support and ramp up the ticket prices as an 'A' list game when we play. Not that many clubs, I suspect, bring that big a support to Welford Road every week.

So, the question is, how do you get more bums on seats to increase revenue which has the knock on impact of a greater match day spend in the ground and potentially more sponsorship income.

The first issue I would address is the international players. Twickenham and the RFU rake in the cash by taking the best players for maybe half or more of the season. So, those star names cannot be used to atrract new supporters as they are simply not there enough. It is ridiculous that a player can ramp up in the interest in the 6 Nations but the clubs cannot benefit from that interest because said player is on a rest period for the next month. This has to change. Does anyone realise how ridiculous it sounds for fans of a top tier sporting club to be starting a new season discussing how many weeks it will be before we are allowed to pick the first team.

The second issue I would address is the timing of the season. Simpl fact is that rugby will never compete with Football at any level or media coverage, sponsorship or fan attendance. The football premier league is simply too big and steamrollers and opposition. Leicester has great support over 2 clubs and I am sure some would like to attend both sports but cannot for many reasons. The biggest controversy I would suggest is to move rugby out of the way of the footbal season. This would have the added benefit of being able to play some internationals pre or post season to help with point 1.

The third and final suggestion I have is the imposition of an individual wage cap as well as a club one. The sport cannot afford half a million pound plus salaries but wage inflation will always go on when there are rich backers at some clubs who want to buy the cudos of success. Cap individual wages and allow clubs to compete for signings on merit not money. Please do not think that I believe that players do not deserve high wages, they do and they deserve more than they earn now but the sport has to be realistic on what it can afford.

From the high of winning the world cup and being at the forefront of the media, rugby should have gone from strength to strength but it has not. Too many clubs have deep pockets and empty stadiums and that does nothing for the development of the game.
jgriffin
Super User
Super User
Posts: 8074
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:49 pm
Location: On the edge of oblivion

Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by jgriffin »

Exeter have had a lot of investment via Rowes firm, there is a lot of money in there, and the incomers from London etc have interests, along with the Rowe family, in the massive developments on the farmland to the East of Sandy Park. The issue with all clubs is TV exposure and national profile. Regions killed Welsh Rugby.
Leicester Tigers 1995-
Nottingham 1995-2000
Swansea (Whites) 1988-95
A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.
GB72
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1439
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:44 pm

Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by GB72 »

jgriffin wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:08 pm Exeter have had a lot of investment via Rowes firm, there is a lot of money in there, and the incomers from London etc have interests, along with the Rowe family, in the massive developments on the farmland to the East of Sandy Park. The issue with all clubs is TV exposure and national profile. Regions killed Welsh Rugby.
Agreed, regions have been a nightmare but something needs to be done otherwise the club game is going to keep struggling.

Again, an extreme view, but imagine how much more valuable the club rights would be if the game were played away from the football season when sport channels have notoriously stuggled to fill air time. Only one can have the cricket and so that leaves the rest with a big gap to fll and not many popular sports.
LekkerTigers
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2021 7:35 pm

Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by LekkerTigers »

GB72 wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:22 pm
jgriffin wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:08 pm Exeter have had a lot of investment via Rowes firm, there is a lot of money in there, and the incomers from London etc have interests, along with the Rowe family, in the massive developments on the farmland to the East of Sandy Park. The issue with all clubs is TV exposure and national profile. Regions killed Welsh Rugby.
Agreed, regions have been a nightmare but something needs to be done otherwise the club game is going to keep struggling.

Again, an extreme view, but imagine how much more valuable the club rights would be if the game were played away from the football season when sport channels have notoriously stuggled to fill air time. Only one can have the cricket and so that leaves the rest with a big gap to fll and not many popular sports.
Having little to no content available on free to air (FTA)/more popular subscription service (like Amazon) means the vast majority of the public have extremely limited access to rugby.
GB72
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1439
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:44 pm

Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by GB72 »

LekkerTigers wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:53 pm
GB72 wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:22 pm
jgriffin wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:08 pm Exeter have had a lot of investment via Rowes firm, there is a lot of money in there, and the incomers from London etc have interests, along with the Rowe family, in the massive developments on the farmland to the East of Sandy Park. The issue with all clubs is TV exposure and national profile. Regions killed Welsh Rugby.
Agreed, regions have been a nightmare but something needs to be done otherwise the club game is going to keep struggling.

Again, an extreme view, but imagine how much more valuable the club rights would be if the game were played away from the football season when sport channels have notoriously stuggled to fill air time. Only one can have the cricket and so that leaves the rest with a big gap to fll and not many popular sports.
Having little to no content available on free to air (FTA)/more popular subscription service (like Amazon) means the vast majority of the public have extremely limited access to rugby.
Sadly none of the terrestrial channels have shown much interest in showing live matches every week nor covering the not insginificant cost to broadcast them. Even channel 4 used the BT sport feed
Rugbygramps
Super User
Super User
Posts: 7198
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:29 pm

Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by Rugbygramps »

jgriffin wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:08 pm Exeter have had a lot of investment via Rowes firm, there is a lot of money in there, and the incomers from London etc have interests, along with the Rowe family, in the massive developments on the farmland to the East of Sandy Park. The issue with all clubs is TV exposure and national profile. Regions killed Welsh Rugby.
Regions did kill welsh rugby because they made huge mistakes when setting it up. It didn’t help thinking Newport could be a separate region from Cardiff, and trying to combine Swansea and Neath.
Franchises are a big no no other wise you end up with what happened to the Raiders state side.
If done properly Regions could work, whilst keeping club teams as a high performance 2nd tier. In New Zealand you have the Crusaders, the Hurricanes and the Blues, with Canterbury. Wellington and Auckland still fielding sides in the NPC.
The system is broken and needs fixing
Scott1
Super User
Super User
Posts: 16756
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:03 pm

Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by Scott1 »

Regions is a dreadful idea imo,everyone I've spoken to in person or online would walk away if it happened. I've ZERO interest in the East Midlands Leicester Saintly Insects,identity would be gone. Au Revoir
"Rugby isn't a contact sport,ballroom dancing is a contact sport. Rugby is a collision sport" Heyneke Meyer
Rugbygramps
Super User
Super User
Posts: 7198
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:29 pm

Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by Rugbygramps »

Scott1 wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:47 pm Regions is a dreadful idea imo,everyone I've spoken to in person or online would walk away if it happened. I've ZERO interest in the Leicester Saintly Insects,identity would be gone. Au Revoir
I’m sure many people feel the same way Scott, I myself am not a huge fan, but I suppose the question is have 5 regions for example and clubs survive in a 2nd tier, or clubs potentially go out of business with all that entails.

This isn’t a pop at you but it’s easy to say this is a dreadful idea and I would walk away, without giving some sort of alternative suggestion, as the current system is broken and fixes are required.
Scott1
Super User
Super User
Posts: 16756
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:03 pm

Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by Scott1 »

Rugbygramps wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:53 pm
Scott1 wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:47 pm Regions is a dreadful idea imo,everyone I've spoken to in person or online would walk away if it happened. I've ZERO interest in the Leicester Saintly Insects,identity would be gone. Au Revoir
I’m sure many people feel the same way Scott, I myself am not a huge fan, but I suppose the question is have 5 regions for example and clubs survive in a 2nd tier, or clubs potentially go out of business with all that entails.

This isn’t a pop at you but it’s easy to say this is a dreadful idea and I would walk away, without giving some sort of alternative suggestion, as the current system is broken and fixes are required.
Yes,the games broken. Something needs to be done. B and I league?
"Rugby isn't a contact sport,ballroom dancing is a contact sport. Rugby is a collision sport" Heyneke Meyer
Rugbygramps
Super User
Super User
Posts: 7198
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:29 pm

Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by Rugbygramps »

Scott1 wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:57 pm
Rugbygramps wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:53 pm
Scott1 wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:47 pm Regions is a dreadful idea imo,everyone I've spoken to in person or online would walk away if it happened. I've ZERO interest in the Leicester Saintly Insects,identity would be gone. Au Revoir
I’m sure many people feel the same way Scott, I myself am not a huge fan, but I suppose the question is have 5 regions for example and clubs survive in a 2nd tier, or clubs potentially go out of business with all that entails.

This isn’t a pop at you but it’s easy to say this is a dreadful idea and I would walk away, without giving some sort of alternative suggestion, as the current system is broken and fixes are required.
Yes,the games broken. Something needs to be done. B and I league?
Good call but wouldn’t that involve regions as that is what exists in Scotland Ireland and Wales, or just a fewer number of clubs.
Post Reply