Worcester’s woes

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AceRugby14
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Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by AceRugby14 »

I agree on the cost cutting. Forget the current salary cap, have the cap set as a percentage of income. If clubs want to succeed, they will need to start getting people through the turnstyles to afford better players rather than take owner handouts or incur debt. At the moment, as long as the sugar daddy is prepared to lose a bit of money then there is no incentive to fill stadiums. Some of the attendances at clubs are simply embarrassing.]

In theory this would work, but with this model there is nothing stopping the "sugar Daddy" buying a box at £250k per game, or 100 prime tickets for at £250 each. Both ways increases the revenue of the club.
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Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by GB72 »

AceRugby14 wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:38 am I agree on the cost cutting. Forget the current salary cap, have the cap set as a percentage of income. If clubs want to succeed, they will need to start getting people through the turnstyles to afford better players rather than take owner handouts or incur debt. At the moment, as long as the sugar daddy is prepared to lose a bit of money then there is no incentive to fill stadiums. Some of the attendances at clubs are simply embarrassing.]

In theory this would work, but with this model there is nothing stopping the "sugar Daddy" buying a box at £250k per game, or 100 prime tickets for at £250 each. Both ways increases the revenue of the club.
That is a fair point but that is at least income to the club not loans or debts that could be recovered by the generous benefactor. Rather than securing their money in behind the scenes loans etc, anyone investing in such a way would literally be giving the club money in a manner that they could not later claim back.

Still, you would suspect that there would remain a need for scrutiny of accounts and such matters could be questioned and addressed. It would be pretty obvious that a club with 5000 in the seats and are £500k a year player on the pitch are doing something dodgy.
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Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by GB72 »

Latest reports say that the match v Newcastle can go ahead at the weekend but that there is no longer and deal on the table and the club cannot meet the RFU deadlines for Monday and so it may all be over after that.

Depending on what is meant by it all being over, quite rightly people are questioning why the match against Newcastle should go ahead and risk players in a match that will count for nothing and could leave players injured who will be looking for a new contract come Monday night
TigerFeetSteve
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Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

GB72 wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:22 pm Latest reports say that the match v Newcastle can go ahead at the weekend but that there is no longer and deal on the table and the club cannot meet the RFU deadlines for Monday and so it may all be over after that.

Depending on what is meant by it all being over, quite rightly people are questioning why the match against Newcastle should go ahead and risk players in a match that will count for nothing and could leave players injured who will be looking for a new contract come Monday night
Whilst I get the whole why play at the weekend, the RFU are planning on suspending the club, not kicking them out. If say they sorted stuff out two weeks later then they may only concede a few games. If it was a permanent exclusion from the league on Monday it would be different.
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Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by GB72 »

TigerFeetSteve wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:37 pm
GB72 wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:22 pm Latest reports say that the match v Newcastle can go ahead at the weekend but that there is no longer and deal on the table and the club cannot meet the RFU deadlines for Monday and so it may all be over after that.

Depending on what is meant by it all being over, quite rightly people are questioning why the match against Newcastle should go ahead and risk players in a match that will count for nothing and could leave players injured who will be looking for a new contract come Monday night
Whilst I get the whole why play at the weekend, the RFU are planning on suspending the club, not kicking them out. If say they sorted stuff out two weeks later then they may only concede a few games. If it was a permanent exclusion from the league on Monday it would be different.
I agree. Sort of why I said 'depends what they mean by all over'. Is that administration, suspension and a chance for a rescue package or is that all over as in no club anymore. Suspension or not, if a large number of players depart as they cannot see where the next pay check is coming from that that will be that. Even then, how do you get parity amongst clubs if they forfeit a couple of matches. That will give 5 points to some teams and that would simply not be fair to those who have to play.
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Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by Rugbygramps »

TigerFeetSteve wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:37 pm
GB72 wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:22 pm Latest reports say that the match v Newcastle can go ahead at the weekend but that there is no longer and deal on the table and the club cannot meet the RFU deadlines for Monday and so it may all be over after that.

Depending on what is meant by it all being over, quite rightly people are questioning why the match against Newcastle should go ahead and risk players in a match that will count for nothing and could leave players injured who will be looking for a new contract come Monday night
Whilst I get the whole why play at the weekend, the RFU are planning on suspending the club, not kicking them out. If say they sorted stuff out two weeks later then they may only concede a few games. If it was a permanent exclusion from the league on Monday it would be different.
I do understand that, but for me we are then getting into the impact this has on other clubs and league positions as a whole, also their participation in the European Challenge cup.
As distressing as it is, and my worries are for employees of Worcester, if they don’t have a plan for at least the next month in place.
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Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by GB72 »

Rugbygramps wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:45 pm
TigerFeetSteve wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:37 pm
GB72 wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:22 pm Latest reports say that the match v Newcastle can go ahead at the weekend but that there is no longer and deal on the table and the club cannot meet the RFU deadlines for Monday and so it may all be over after that.

Depending on what is meant by it all being over, quite rightly people are questioning why the match against Newcastle should go ahead and risk players in a match that will count for nothing and could leave players injured who will be looking for a new contract come Monday night
Whilst I get the whole why play at the weekend, the RFU are planning on suspending the club, not kicking them out. If say they sorted stuff out two weeks later then they may only concede a few games. If it was a permanent exclusion from the league on Monday it would be different.
I do understand that, but for me we are then getting into the impact this has on other clubs and league positions as a whole, also their participation in the European Challenge cup.
As distressing as it is, and my worries are for employees of Worcester, if they don’t have a plan for at least the next month in place.
Sadly it does not seem like they have a plan for the next week let alone the next month. My heart goes out to the employees as well.
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Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

The Worcester situation has been debated in Parliament this evening.

The Worcester MP asked for them to be put into Administration.

It seems that the DCMS are going to "imminently" send in an advisor to directly look at the situation.

The chat from Wuss fans on Twitter who think that's going to help the government be able to back up why they are forcingthe club into administration.

https://twitter.com/Mcossalifrancis/sta ... p5awg&s=19
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Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by Old Hob »

Omnia dicta fortiora si dicta Latina
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Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by Old Hob »

And a note on the character of one of the owners:

"Worcester Warriors owners decided to sell Morecambe Football Club after one of them failed the English Football Leagues owners and directors test, it can be revealed.
Colin Goldring and co-owner Jason Whittingham quit the board of the League One team a fortnight after Telegraph Sport disclosed Premiership rugby side Worcester had been hit by a winding-up petition from HM Revenue & Customs over an unpaid tax bill.
Telegraph Sport has been told the pair did so after Goldring failed the EFLs owners and directors test (ODT). The reasons behind Goldring failing the test are unclear but may have been influenced by a ban in May this year imposed on him acting as a solicitor without permission of the regulator for his role in a botched £8 million luxury car deal involving a foreign prince between 2016 and 2018, when he was a trainee solicitor.
Goldring was said to have failed the test despite both Worcester and Morecambe having issued a statement in July which read: All regulatory bodies expressed to Colin that they were satisfied he was fit and proper to own and be director of a sports club. Those bodies included the EFL and the Rugby Football Union.
The EFLs ODT contains a list of disqualifying conditions, including those which apply to anyone subject to a suspension or ban or other form of disqualification by a professional body".
The RFU does not have a formal fit and proper persons test and only carries out its own assessment of someone's suitability to run a club during a change of ownership or management.
Goldrings statement he had been passed fit and proper to own and be a director of Morecambe following Mays ruling by a Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal (SDT) was disputed by the EFL, a spokesman for which said: Under the EFLs regulations, it is for clubs and/or individuals to report any change in an individuals circumstances, and any potential issues are referred to the board of the EFL which would issue any decision as appropriate. No decision was issued by the EFL prior to the clubs announcement in July 2022.
The RFU also said in a statement: The RFU did not confirm that no action would be taken following publication of the SDT judgment, and the latest correspondence with the club on this matter confirmed that it remained open, but the immediate focus would be on the financial position of the club and whether it could survive.
It added: As with all regulations, the RFU will consider what learnings there are from the process and what if any amendments to its regulations may be required following the situation at Worcester Warriors. A review of these regulations had already been planned for season 2022/23.
Goldring declined to comment on his failure of the ODT but said that he had received legal advice from a QC confirming the SDT ruling did not put him in breach of it and that his resignation from the board of Morecambe was entirely unrelated.
He also reiterated his public position from last week that it had always been his and Whittinghams intention to sell the club around two years after becoming majority shareholders in 2018, something that had been delayed by the coronavirus crisis.
He said a buyer had already been found for the club who, subject to EFL approval, would take his and Whittinghams seats on the board.
The pair has also put Worcester up for sale amid a growing row over whether they should first put the crisis club into administration.
Morecambe declined to comment"
Omnia dicta fortiora si dicta Latina
Old Hob
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Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by Old Hob »

Omnia dicta fortiora si dicta Latina
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Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by jgriffin »

Old Hob wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:12 pm And Steve Diamond's take:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/63002989
He's in there and fighting, and you couldn't ask for more.
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wigworth
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Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by wigworth »

jgriffin wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 7:40 pm
Old Hob wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:12 pm And Steve Diamond's take:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/63002989
He's in there and fighting, and you couldn't ask for more.
I know he often gets quite a bit of stick but in my opinion Diamond has acquitted himself pretty well in this tough situation.
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Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by longlivethecrumbie »

wigworth wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 7:40 am
jgriffin wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 7:40 pm
Old Hob wrote: Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:12 pm And Steve Diamond's take:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/63002989
He's in there and fighting, and you couldn't ask for more.
I know he often gets quite a bit of stick but in my opinion Diamond has acquitted himself pretty well in this tough situation.
It's kind of the sort of thing that you expect him to revel in - backs to the wall, circle the wagons etc. Proper street fighter. Let's hope that yesterday wasn't the end for Warriors and this huge farcical period of ownership can be consigned to history
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Re: Worcester’s woes

Post by wigworth »

Steve Diamond's last tweet seems to suggest it is at least the end for him at Worcester.

"#TOGETHER Its been some ride with the Warriors. Loved every minute. Good night from me."
https://twitter.com/Steve_Dimes/status/ ... 7327358978

Seems like the end will most likely be on Monday.
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