Leicester Tigers gets in on the crypto grift...

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murphy15
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Re: Leicester Tigers gets in on the crypto grift...

Post by murphy15 »

Rugbygramps wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:16 am Thank you Murphy15 that is certainly clearer now

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Re: Leicester Tigers gets in on the crypto grift...

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“ Welcome to Welford Road, Tigers family. Please arrange yourselves into your crypto-funded tiers before attempting to enter the stadium. Have your digital token ready to present to a steward. If you do not have a digital token, then you are not inside the Tigers family 'circle of trust' and should not attempt to access our gated community.”

Welcome to our future(and I’m not just taking about WR or rugby) ,brilliant! 👍
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Re: Leicester Tigers gets in on the crypto grift...

Post by LE18 »

johnthegriff wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:07 pm My current feeling, and I wait to be enlightened is that there is no benefit to the fans of Leicester Tigers and indeed the fans of any sports club. With the history of this concept and the failed attempt to introduce it at West Ham United to refer to I find it incredible that we as a club have adopted the scheme and are even promoting it on kit, I feel whoever is responsible has little affinity with ordinary fans and it is therefore not surprising that they think they need an outside body to enhance fan engagement with the club. Just at the time fans feel closer and more supportive of the club than they have for many years somebody decides to drive a wedge between them.
Wow John that's powerful coming from such a devoted club man. :smt041 :smt023 :smt041
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Re: Leicester Tigers gets in on the crypto grift...

Post by Rugbygramps »

LE18 wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:25 am
johnthegriff wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:07 pm My current feeling, and I wait to be enlightened is that there is no benefit to the fans of Leicester Tigers and indeed the fans of any sports club. With the history of this concept and the failed attempt to introduce it at West Ham United to refer to I find it incredible that we as a club have adopted the scheme and are even promoting it on kit, I feel whoever is responsible has little affinity with ordinary fans and it is therefore not surprising that they think they need an outside body to enhance fan engagement with the club. Just at the time fans feel closer and more supportive of the club than they have for many years somebody decides to drive a wedge between them.
Wow John that's powerful coming from such a devoted club man. :smt041 :smt023 :smt041
It is powerful and yes it may have been a decision negotiated by the commercial team but surely any decision involving a new sponsor has to be agreed at least by the CEO/COO if not the board, so Andrea and Peter Tom will have had full knowledge.

They’ll be advertising HOOTERS across the chest of the short soon
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Re: Leicester Tigers gets in on the crypto grift...

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I will clarify with murphy's post, that the tokens are fundamentally tied with Socios own cryptocurrency. In order to buy tokens, you have to use their app to buy their cryptocurrency called Chiliz. This currency is then used to buy tokens. By the way, the value of Chiliz has halved in the past year. It peaked at 1=£0.66 and is currently sitting at about 1=£0.10

This is primarily what I take umbrage with. I see the industry is inherently terrible. The power consumption that props up the systems they run on rivals the Netherlands for emissions. The market is exceptionally volatile, and already much of the wealth and power is already centralised in a very small circle, which relies on fresh blood coming in now to keep liquidity in the system. Many have very rightly been compared to ponzi/pyramids schemes and MLMs. Pump-and-dumps and wash trading are rampant. And despite what evangelists will tell you, a future built on crypto is a privacy nightmare, where all your data is stored on a append-only ledger, and everything is monetised.

If you really want to deep-dive into this stuff, my highest recommendation is a video by the excellent youtuber and documentarian Dan Olson. A fair warning that it is long and dense, and you may want to watch it in chunks. As a taster, the video starts with an explanation of the subprime mortgage crisis. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ_xWvX1n9g

Crypto is repulsive to me, and I see no reason why the club need to partner with this company in order to offer rewards and stoke engagement with the fans. No reason other than they've been offered a pile of money from investors who don't actually give a damn about rugby or the club. The club should not be courting these people, and they should not be encouraging fans to buy cryptocurrency.
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Re: Leicester Tigers gets in on the crypto grift...

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So to clarify Darc Tiger by buying your season ticket you are not then obliged to buy more of this currency. So other than potential personal data breach’s, which in itself is bad enough, and dislike at the club partnership with this company there is no down side for the supporter.

Are these firms regulated by the FCA ?
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Re: Leicester Tigers gets in on the crypto grift...

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Darc Tiger wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:58 am I will clarify with murphy's post, that the tokens are fundamentally tied with Socios own cryptocurrency. In order to buy tokens, you have to use their app to buy their cryptocurrency called Chiliz. This currency is then used to buy tokens. By the way, the value of Chiliz has halved in the past year. It peaked at 1=£0.66 and is currently sitting at about 1=£0.10
There's no real relevance to this though if you take the previous points I made re: ownership vs investment - it's just a way to convert your money from fiat to crypto so you can buy the token, and takes a matter of seconds - but the club needs to take responsibility for making these things clear, otherwise inevitably people will mistakenly invest in Chiliz and lose their money (or, more likely as I said before, nobody will engage with it at all!). Lack of clarity/education/information is a major issue with the industry, and I very much doubt that Tigers will become a market leader in that area...

(As an aside, re: your energy consumption point, I have read that the Chiliz blockchain is trialling proof-of-stake, which is energy efficient enough to successfully run a carbon neutral blockchain (see Algorand for example). When Ethereum moves (imminently) to proof-of-stake with 2.0, this will have a major impact on market-wide energy consumption. This is all certainly long overdue.)
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murphy15
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Re: Leicester Tigers gets in on the crypto grift...

Post by murphy15 »

Rugbygramps wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 12:04 pm Are these firms regulated by the FCA ?
No, the industry is largely unregulated at the moment - hence the number of pump-and-dump scams. My advice: don't engage with it other than to add your voice to the rest of the fans who are telling the club to ditch the idea - not because it's a scam though; because it's stupid.
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Re: Leicester Tigers gets in on the crypto grift...

Post by Rugbygramps »

murphy15 wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 12:17 pm
Rugbygramps wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 12:04 pm Are these firms regulated by the FCA ?
No, the industry is largely unregulated at the moment - hence the number of pump-and-dump scams. My advice: don't engage with it other than to add your voice to the rest of the fans who are telling the club to ditch the idea - not because it's a scam though; because it's stupid.
My friend I have difficulty understanding how I can use my phone to pay for stuff at the till 😂😂
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Re: Leicester Tigers gets in on the crypto grift...

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Crypto is pretty much a wild west. Legislators barely understand it (or perhaps don't), let alone have the energy to effectively regulate it. A large part of the initial appeal to many was that it is supposedly 'de-centralised' and immutable. And its why fraud is so rampant.

Of course you are no obligated to buy in, but you can guarantee they'll try and push you into doing so until the air drains out of the balloon. And the systems are so obtuse that people will be drawn in without understanding exactly what they are opting in to. Crypto often relies on that naivety. And you can quite easily waste your money, even with projects like Socios.

There's been plenty of blowback from Asernal Supporters Trust since Arsenal signed up in 2021, for example.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-59730984
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Re: Leicester Tigers gets in on the crypto grift...

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murphy15 wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 12:15 pm
Darc Tiger wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:58 am I will clarify with murphy's post, that the tokens are fundamentally tied with Socios own cryptocurrency. In order to buy tokens, you have to use their app to buy their cryptocurrency called Chiliz. This currency is then used to buy tokens. By the way, the value of Chiliz has halved in the past year. It peaked at 1=£0.66 and is currently sitting at about 1=£0.10
There's no real relevance to this though if you take the previous points I made re: ownership vs investment - it's just a way to convert your money from fiat to crypto so you can buy the token, and takes a matter of seconds - but the club needs to take responsibility for making these things clear, otherwise inevitably people will mistakenly invest in Chiliz and lose their money (or, more likely as I said before, nobody will engage with it at all!). Lack of clarity/education/information is a major issue with the industry, and I very much doubt that Tigers will become a market leader in that area...

(As an aside, re: your energy consumption point, I have read that the Chiliz blockchain is trialling proof-of-stake, which is energy efficient enough to successfully run a carbon neutral blockchain (see Algorand for example). When Ethereum moves (imminently) to proof-of-stake with 2.0, this will have a major impact on market-wide energy consumption. This is all certainly long overdue.)
Crypto evangelists have been saying they'll move to proof-of-stake for ages. I'll believe it when it happens. It's actually more complex and inefficient in some ways, and it's still bad for the environment (just less so). Proof-of-stake also massively skews in favour of those who already own the most capital, further centralising power.
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Re: Leicester Tigers gets in on the crypto grift...

Post by murphy15 »

Darc Tiger wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 12:53 pm
murphy15 wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 12:15 pm
Darc Tiger wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:58 am

Crypto evangelists have been saying they'll move to proof-of-stake for ages. I'll believe it when it happens. It's actually more complex and inefficient in some ways, and it's still bad for the environment (just less so). Proof-of-stake also massively skews in favour of those who already own the most capital, further centralising power.
I don't entirely agree with all of this - but I think we've digressed enough from rugby! :smt002
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Re: Leicester Tigers gets in on the crypto grift...

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Fair enough. We are getting a bit into the weeds with my wider grievances with crypto.

On a more localised basis, a major concern should be around monetising of fan access/engagement. Perhaps on the face of it this is a more appealing to a Premier League club, where the barrier between fans and the club/players is much greater. At Leicester Tigers, I fear of a slippery slope away from what we already have by introducing an unnecessary middleman and gated access. As well of monetising engagement that the club should probably be doing for free, or at least in a more transparent and organic way.

Not to mention I'm unclear how much the club benefits financially, and how much Socios does. What is the cut? Does Socios just pay a lump sum for sponsorship and all transactions go to them? Does the club even get a cut of subsequent token purchases? How sensitive are the costs of buying tokens relative to the value of the Chiliz backing the system?
Last edited by Darc Tiger on Tue Jul 19, 2022 1:31 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Scott1
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Re: Leicester Tigers gets in on the crypto grift...

Post by Scott1 »

No,carry on with the crypto talk please guys,its very interesting! Plus it references crypto in the header. Is that OK Tigerbeat?
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Re: Leicester Tigers gets in on the crypto grift...

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Scott1 wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 1:27 pm No,carry on with the crypto talk please guys,its very interesting! Plus it references crypto in the header. Is that OK Tigerbeat?
This is Tigers related so open for discussion.
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