Leicester Tigers gets in on the crypto grift...

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TigerFeetSteve
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Re: Leicester Tigers gets in on the crypto grift...

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

Darc Tiger wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:40 pm
Scott1 wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:15 pm Don't get me wrong I'm early 40s and I'm not a fan but whenever Im at a rugby ground I look around at the crowds and for me WR seems to have the highest average age by far. Is this just something to maybe hook in the new breed of fan? Are times changing? Or am I completely barking up the wrong tree?
The people still diehard about crypto in 2022 only care about their investment. The line must go up. It relies on disposable income, unless you're inviting financial irresponsibility, and that is not something many people (especially young people) have in spades.
Scott1 wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:29 pm Just as an aside boxers are now using NFT,Connor Benn being the most famous to recently announce it. Is this the first step to our players using them,could be!
NFTs are even worse than this fan token nonsense, and the bottom fell out of that market months ago.
The best and most accurate description of an NFT's I've seen is as follows:

Imagine you're married to a lady of the night, however she doesn't charge anyone. You have a marriage certificate saying she's YOUR wife, however it doesn't give you exclusive rights or any other rights to her than the ability to say you have the marriage certificate that says she's yours, but you had to fork out for a very expensive wedding, as she doesn't charge anyone else so she needs you to pay lots.
An NFT is essentially is a certificate that states a digital image (or any other digital information) belongs to you, but anyone else can copy use the exact same digital information for free.
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LittleBigG
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Re: Leicester Tigers gets in on the crypto grift...

Post by LittleBigG »

TigerFeetSteve wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:31 pm An NFT is essentially is a certificate that states a digital image (or any other digital information) belongs to you, but anyone else can copy use the exact same digital information for free.
Including using the exact same info to mint another NFT... :smt043
Darc Tiger
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Re: Leicester Tigers gets in on the crypto grift...

Post by Darc Tiger »

LittleBigG wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:23 pm
Darc Tiger wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 8:40 pm I personally find anything backed by cryptocurrency to be inherently objectionable. Even if an individual project is relatively lower risk compared to others. I will not engage with a system that ties itself to a blockchain. They come free with a season ticket? That's actually makes it less attractive to me.

I also find the concept of using it for 'fan engagement' as entirely unnecessary, and in some ways actively repulsive. The club should work towards organic ways of interacting with their fans and providing perks without allowing shady investors, who care nothing for the club or the fans, to stick their claws in for profit.
If the answer to "can I solve this problem without using a blockchain" is "yes" (hint: invariably it always is) then the "product" is generally compromised in some way in order to crowbar the use of the blockchain in where it is not required

When all you are after is buckets of venture capital pounds, everything can be "fixed" with a blockchain, because it was the buzzword of last year

I must have skimmed over the part where it said they come free with a season ticket... this surely must be opt-in; what data will be stored in the public ledger?? (Again, probably naff all meaningful, which again raises the question as to why the grossly inefficient technology is "required")

At the very best these "legitimate" companies are embellishing their credentials by convincing people that something is required, when it is not.

I missed this gem too: "enjoy the benefits of the token-gated community" - pay-for-access - so inclusive for a, supposedly, family friendly club. Die in a fire
:smt038
murphy15
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Re: Leicester Tigers gets in on the crypto grift...

Post by murphy15 »

I work in blockchain and I think that fan tokens aren't worthwhile. In a sport like football, where player access is very limited and clubs are behemoths, then finding a way to help a sprawling, international fanbase close that gap could be valuable (though much more easily achievable using a fixed price NFT rather than a token), but in rugby, our fanbases are communities, our players part of a family. If I want to speak to a player, I tweet him. More often than not, he replies.

The main problem here is that the club seem to have forgotten that rugby fans are proud of that natural, organic closeness, that community. By bringing money into that equation, it not only cheapens the connection fans have with the club, it actually creates a gap by forcing a middleman into a place it wasn't needed.

I'd also add that Tigers have wildly misjudged their fan demographic if they think they'll get any traction from this. Really, really disappointing. I hope someone sends the link to this thread, and the comments on the Twitter account, to the relevant people so they can take fan feedback on board and reconsider.
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jgriffin
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Re: Leicester Tigers gets in on the crypto grift...

Post by jgriffin »

My stepson is a graphic artist and got involved in the NFT market, producing art and literary work, in partnership with a member of a world-famous rock band (family connections). After a year, both declared it a disastrous con.
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HandOfBack
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Re: Leicester Tigers gets in on the crypto grift...

Post by HandOfBack »

I really don't understand what the club was thinking? Surely if they wanted to jump on this "hype", they would have done it a few years ago.

However, I strongly disagree with what they are doing. As previous posters have said, If I want to speak to a player etc. I go down pitchside after the match.

As a season ticket holder - what will happen to my information if they plan on giving us a "free" token? Do we have the choice?

The club have really misjudged this one. Maybe the payday was too big to ignore?

I just really hope they aren't on match shirts!
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Re: Leicester Tigers gets in on the crypto grift...

Post by murphy15 »

jgriffin wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 9:03 am My stepson is a graphic artist and got involved in the NFT market, producing art and literary work, in partnership with a member of a world-famous rock band (family connections). After a year, both declared it a disastrous con.
The con is partly in the way that some people/businesses are using them, but also that they're mostly being bought by naive, greedy fools who want everything they touch to magically turn to gold. NFT technology could be very useful to prevent forgery and prove ownership - gig tickets, season passes to games, fan engagement, etc., but as fixed-price entities, not vehicles for enormous profit/speculation.
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TigerXV
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Re: Leicester Tigers gets in on the crypto grift...

Post by TigerXV »

murphy15 wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 9:12 am
jgriffin wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 9:03 am My stepson is a graphic artist and got involved in the NFT market, producing art and literary work, in partnership with a member of a world-famous rock band (family connections). After a year, both declared it a disastrous con.
The con is partly in the way that some people/businesses are using them, but also that they're mostly being bought by naive, greedy fools who want everything they touch to magically turn to gold. NFT technology could be very useful to prevent forgery and prove ownership - gig tickets, season passes to games, fan engagement, etc., but as fixed-price entities, not vehicles for enormous profit/speculation.
as a bit of an old duffer myself you appear to understand this business and are responding with both knowledge and balance - i wonder, if you have time, if you could explain how this new venture works and how it is a 'crypto scam' or simply using a platform for engagement to a geographically far reaching fan base. Also, how you think the club might have structured the sponsorship deal? thanks in advance!
CrumblingTerrace
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Re: Leicester Tigers gets in on the crypto grift...

Post by CrumblingTerrace »

LittleBigG wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:23 pm I missed this gem too: "enjoy the benefits of the token-gated community" - pay-for-access - so inclusive for a, supposedly, family friendly club. Die in a fire
"Welcome to Welford Road, Tigers family. Please arrange yourselves into your crypto-funded tiers before attempting to enter the stadium. Have your digital token ready to present to a steward. If you do not have a digital token, then you are not inside the Tigers family 'circle of trust' and should not attempt to access our gated community.

Leicester Tigers is a family club. We would like to extend a warm welcome to all our new supporters this season - at half-time Martin Ballard will give a roll call of all the new transaction IDs on our family blockchain ledger. Please be advised that the traditional Big Boot half-time entertainment is cancelled with immediate effect."
TigerXV
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Re: Leicester Tigers gets in on the crypto grift...

Post by TigerXV »

CrumblingTerrace wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 10:26 am
LittleBigG wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:23 pm I missed this gem too: "enjoy the benefits of the token-gated community" - pay-for-access - so inclusive for a, supposedly, family friendly club. Die in a fire
"Welcome to Welford Road, Tigers family. Please arrange yourselves into your crypto-funded tiers before attempting to enter the stadium. Have your digital token ready to present to a steward. If you do not have a digital token, then you are not inside the Tigers family 'circle of trust' and should not attempt to access our gated community.

Leicester Tigers is a family club. We would like to extend a warm welcome to all our new supporters this season - at half-time Martin Ballard will give a roll call of all the new transaction IDs on our family blockchain ledger. Please be advised that the traditional Big Boot half-time entertainment is cancelled with immediate effect."
the 'token-gated community' is a totally naff press line and does nothing for anyone's confidence in the new sponsor but the 'separation' of fans already exists on a basic level of members/non-members, Season tickets holders/non season ticket holders, and at a higher level of other club sponsors with boxes and of course match day hospitality access where supporters pay handsomely for access to players. I'm not a fan of this new direction of sponsorship but feel a level of sanity needs to be kept in the discussion
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Re: Leicester Tigers gets in on the crypto grift...

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What a load of rubbish! We'll be getting sponsored by Rich Energy next....
Rugbygramps
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Re: Leicester Tigers gets in on the crypto grift...

Post by Rugbygramps »

As a bit of an old git myself I would be really grateful if one of my fellow posters with knowledge of all of this, and there seem to be a few of you could find the time to do an idiots guide on all this including explaining the terminology and some of the acronyms used :smt023
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Re: Leicester Tigers gets in on the crypto grift...

Post by murphy15 »

TigerXV wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 10:21 am
murphy15 wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 9:12 am
jgriffin wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 9:03 am My stepson is a graphic artist and got involved in the NFT market, producing art and literary work, in partnership with a member of a world-famous rock band (family connections). After a year, both declared it a disastrous con.
The con is partly in the way that some people/businesses are using them, but also that they're mostly being bought by naive, greedy fools who want everything they touch to magically turn to gold. NFT technology could be very useful to prevent forgery and prove ownership - gig tickets, season passes to games, fan engagement, etc., but as fixed-price entities, not vehicles for enormous profit/speculation.
as a bit of an old duffer myself you appear to understand this business and are responding with both knowledge and balance - i wonder, if you have time, if you could explain how this new venture works and how it is a 'crypto scam' or simply using a platform for engagement to a geographically far reaching fan base. Also, how you think the club might have structured the sponsorship deal? thanks in advance!
I suppose the first thing to say is that fan tokens aren't scams - you'll get the benefits of token ownership that the club and its partner (Socios) say you will, whether that be access to the players' lounge, votes on kit design, a free pint here and there - whatever they decide to offer. As long as you keep the tokens you have bought and the partnership stays live, those things will all apply. Think of it as a digital ticket - you buy one token, it's like a low tier of ticket, so you get fewer perks. Buy more tokens, then it's like spending extra on a matchday ticket for a better seat.

There are three reasons why people call this a scam. 1) People think that anything involving blockchain is somehow linked to Bitcoin, or other high-profile cryptocurrencies, which have been susceptible to pump-and-dump investment fraud.

Fan tokens aren't a cryptocurrency - that's the first thing to set right. They're more like an access pass.

2) Blockchain technology came to the fore in the main because people started making enormous amounts of money from it, seemingly for no reason. So now, people look to invest in these things purely to get a huge return on their investment - and when they don't, they get angry and call it a scam - whether it is or it isn't.

Fan tokens, historically, have not gone up in value. I think that clubs have overestimated the engagement that they might generate. But if you're a fan, why are you buying tokens as a money-making thing? Surely it's about the access those tokens provide? If I buy a club shirt, I'm not doing so in order to sell it for profit. So, as long as you are comfortable with buying a certain level of access in the knowledge that if you ever want to sell it, you're unlikely to make your money back, there's no issue.

3) This is a relatively new technology in a completely unregulated market saturated with jargon. This means that people can scam each other with impunity. So, they do.

If Tigers have spent money on this deal (an initial outlay for Socios to set up the blockchain ledger, followed by either an upfront amount of tokens purchased, or a profit share on token purchases) and are expecting to recoup it/make a profit based on token sales and increasing value, they're complete idiots. That doesn't really impact the fans who have bought the tokens though - as I said before, as long as the partnership with Socios is "live", you get the advertised benefits that you paid for.
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Rugbygramps
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Re: Leicester Tigers gets in on the crypto grift...

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Thank you Murphy15 that is certainly clearer now
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Re: Leicester Tigers gets in on the crypto grift...

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Rugbygramps wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 10:56 am As a bit of an old git myself I would be really grateful if one of my fellow posters with knowledge of all of this, and there seem to be a few of you could find the time to do an idiots guide on all this including explaining the terminology and some of the acronyms used :smt023
This is a pretty broad request sir! :smt003 I hope my post above is at least a starting point - but ask away if you have any other questions.

(Again, I don't endorse this fan token idea whatsoever - I just happen to work in blockchain)
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