LEICESTER TIGERS 2022/23 - Prisoner of Oadby Pre-Season

[Rugbygramps]

I remember reading a comment by Henderson that even before Borthwick joined Tigers he was sending Henderson things to work on.
Shows how highly he rated him.

[ABClub]

For a few seasons the consistent view was we were underpowered at lock, Lavanini perhaps the exception, but rather than buy our way out, we have take the time to develop our own, and now have 3x locks developed within who are internationals or right on the brink of such. Chessum was arguably one of England’s best forwards recently, and yet some (not necessarily me) think he’ll be lucky to unseat the partnership of Martin and Henderson.
Then looking at what’s behind them, development wise, two England U20 locks, both even bigger than the three aforementioned locks.

The development at lock has been terrific. I don't think the argument from many was ever to sign a starting XV lock so we didn't develop them. Rather there was a view towards signing an international standard lock to develop the abundant talent alongside. Chessum coming through even quicker than expected followed by this terrific run from Martin and Henderson has rendered that unnecessary though.

The signings of Montoya and Wiese alongside the consistency of Hanro can't be underestimated in the physicality argument though. Packs are all about balance. Finding that balance at lock will always be easier with one the best hookers in rugby and one of the most physical number 8s around.

The pack is in a very good place indeed. Retaining West and finding a Jansen type back row would round it out pretty perfectly.

What's crazy to consider is that Dolly hasn't played this season and I honestly think Ilione could have a big impact next season. Exciting times.

[FrontRowUnionMember]

For a few seasons the consistent view was we were underpowered at lock, Lavanini perhaps the exception, but rather than buy our way out, we have take the time to develop our own, and now have 3x locks developed within who are internationals or right on the brink of such. Chessum was arguably one of England’s best forwards recently, and yet some (not necessarily me) think he’ll be lucky to unseat the partnership of Martin and Henderson.
Then looking at what’s behind them, development wise, two England U20 locks, both even bigger than the three aforementioned locks.

The development at lock has been terrific. I don't think the argument from many was ever to sign a starting XV lock so we didn't develop them. Rather there was a view towards signing an international standard lock to develop the abundant talent alongside. Chessum coming through even quicker than expected followed by this terrific run from Martin and Henderson has rendered that unnecessary though.

The signings of Montoya and Wiese alongside the consistency of Hanro can't be underestimated in the physicality argument though. Packs are all about balance. Finding that balance at lock will always be easier with one the best hookers in rugby and one of the most physical number 8s around.

The pack is in a very good place indeed. Retaining West and finding a Jansen type back row would round it out pretty perfectly.

What's crazy to consider is that Dolly hasn't played this season and I honestly think Ilione could have a big impact next season. Exciting times.

I agree. Retaining West would give us three very high level LH’s able to do damage to most front rows we play, yet perhaps a small margin below international level so we will get full access to them. Probably one of the strongest senior LH pools around. At TH, Cole just keeps on performing, and Heyes is developing very nicely to start to take over from him. Hurd probably a step behind Whitcombe in development at this stage, but has shown increasing dependability the more experience he’s gained. Richardson I’m keen to see how his progression as a TH has come along, as I feel we could do with a bit of extra quality there if Cole and Heyes both stay in the England picture. Miell and Hoyt are two big units that hopefully we can get the development path right. Montoya a truly world class, Clare a dependable club level player, reliably proficient in all his basics, then Dolly perhaps just has the extra dynamism and will be good to have him back next year. Vanes and FTT should both be good enough and developed enough to see us not need to extend Taufete.
Lock looking all good.
Back row, having Liebenberg and Hatherall gives us two big bruising sixes. Reffell has just got better and better. We all know what Wiese brings. I’ve been impressed by Cracknell also, seems to do a very good job at 7 or 8 with his explosiveness and workrate. I think one more addition at either 7 or 8, with Illone also coming into the mix, and we’re in a very good place in terms of quality and depth. Likes of Carnduff and Josh Manz coming into the development picture also.

Extra additions, probably 1 prop alongside West on the assumption both Van Wyk and Leatigaga leave. Unless Richardson’s progression is such that he comes right into the picture, and how far Hoyt has developed. One extra back row needed I’d say too.

[mightymouse]

What is the Whitcome injury situation?.. almost seem to have forgotten him with West being so superb and yet he’s is a LH who was developing very nicely for such a young man.
Also the reintroduction of Dolly gives us a 3rd choice hooker of Clare who is very handy dependable bloke to have .. very impressive.. as long as we can hang onto them all
Agree with everything everyone has said about our locks and back row but I just want to say one thing about George Martin.
I have always rated this kid since I first saw what looked like a man charging through a lot of kids as a nine year old. (He was a 9 year old not me .. and he was doing the charging!)However his power in defence has become even more effective as a lock than a back row if that’s possible. Now he has added very effective carrying to his game and he just gets better and better. I could not leave this guy out of a team I chose, whoever else you pick.
What an embarrassment of riches.
And if Borthwick doesn’t have him in the England team very soon I will be amazed!

[TigerFeetSteve]

What is the Whitcome injury situation?.. almost seem to have forgotten him with West being so superb and yet he’s is a LH who was developing very nicely for such a young man.
Also the reintroduction of Dolly gives us a 3rd choice hooker of Clare who is very handy dependable bloke to have .. very impressive.. as long as we can hang onto them all
Agree with everything everyone has said about our locks and back row but I just want to say one thing about George Martin.
I have always rated this kid since I first saw what looked like a man charging through a lot of kids as a nine year old. (He was a 9 year old not me .. and he was doing the charging!)However his power in defence has become even more effective as a lock than a back row if that’s possible. Now he has added very effective carrying to his game and he just gets better and better. I could not leave this guy out of a team I chose, whoever else you pick.
What an embarrassment of riches.
And if Borthwick doesn’t have him in the England team very soon I will be amazed!

Not too much is known about Whitcombe's injury, but from what I've heard he was expected to miss most of the rest of the season. Interestingly though he did do some support cycling with Will Findlay so may not be the full season

[Rugbygramps]

What is the Whitcome injury situation?.. almost seem to have forgotten him with West being so superb and yet he’s is a LH who was developing very nicely for such a young man.
Also the reintroduction of Dolly gives us a 3rd choice hooker of Clare who is very handy dependable bloke to have .. very impressive.. as long as we can hang onto them all
Agree with everything everyone has said about our locks and back row but I just want to say one thing about George Martin.
I have always rated this kid since I first saw what looked like a man charging through a lot of kids as a nine year old. (He was a 9 year old not me .. and he was doing the charging!)However his power in defence has become even more effective as a lock than a back row if that’s possible. Now he has added very effective carrying to his game and he just gets better and better. I could not leave this guy out of a team I chose, whoever else you pick.
What an embarrassment of riches.
And if Borthwick doesn’t have him in the England team very soon I will be amazed!

I think we will see Dolly involved in the Exeter game in some capacity, if not on the bench v Leinster, purely because if either Montoya or Clare go lame we need match ready cover.

[Hot_Charlie]

What is the Whitcome injury situation?.. almost seem to have forgotten him with West being so superb and yet he’s is a LH who was developing very nicely for such a young man.

He was happily walking around the stadium on Friday night, so it's not obvious!

[RagingBull]

In my perfect world I want forwards wise
West re-signed
1 x LH or TH depending on how we see Richardson as mainly being
1 x Back rower (Would settle short term till christmas kind of signing)

[TigerFeetSteve]

In my perfect world I want forwards wise
West re-signed
1 x LH or TH depending on how we see Richardson as mainly being
1 x Back rower (Would settle short term till christmas kind of signing)

I agree, plus depending on severity of Wells & Green injuries, a lock injury cover till post World cup. As those two are possibly, with Chessum, Henderson & Martin all in international contention, our leading locks in the World cup period.

Edit: I will caveat the prop, IF we think Hoyt is ready for first team bench in the prem I could see us leaving it as signing West, then having Richardson and Hoyt as 4th choice props & LH & TH

[Leicestertinytiger]

Do we need a backrower though given that Chessum, Martin and Wells can all in theory cover 6. Liebenberg has played openside for us in the past. Worst case scenario in the WC we’ll still have.

6. Hatherall
7. Cracknell
8. Liebenberg

20. Ilione

I can’t imagine all three of Martin, Chessum and Henderson going to the World Cup. Like I said Wells can cover 6 too. Any injuries will be covered by dispensation signings.

[Rugbygramps]

In my perfect world I want forwards wise
West re-signed
1 x LH or TH depending on how we see Richardson as mainly being
1 x Back rower (Would settle short term till christmas kind of signing)

I agree, plus depending on severity of Wells & Green injuries, a lock injury cover till post World cup. As those two are possibly, with Chessum, Henderson & Martin all in international contention, our leading locks in the World cup period.

Edit: I will caveat the prop, IF we think Hoyt is ready for first team bench in the prem I could see us leaving it as signing West, then having Richardson and Hoyt as 4th choice props & LH & TH

I think I’m right in saying that Hoyt is quite young still. He also had his :censored: handed to him a couple of times during the u20s especially by the Italians

[RagingBull]

Trying to figure which U18's academy lads may get a contract
Suspect we might see
Tom Wand - LH
Harry Clarke - H
Felix Starkey - Lock
George Perkins - Openside
Ben Taylor - 10/15

[FrontRowUnionMember]

On the assumption West does stay on, need additional depth at TH, 7 or 8, Wing, and an additional utility back (centre/wing or wing/fullback).
None need to be top tier players, but a prop capable of dropping into the squad of/when Cole and Heyes are with England, a back row player like Cracknell able to slot in when Wiese and Reffell are away, and some depth in the outside backs being as we could lose Kelly and Porter to England, plus OHC and Steward.

[TigerFeetSteve]

Do we think anything can be read into the fact
Benhard Van Rensburg appears to have been at Welford Road for the Edinburgh game according to Wiese & Liebenberg's Instagram statuses?

[kpj tiger]

Do we think anything can be read into the fact
Benhard Van Rensburg appears to have been at Welford Road for the Edinburgh game according to Wiese & Liebenberg's Instagram statuses?

Would guess it was just friends from SA meeting up while LI had no game, you'd be amazed if Irish were going to let him leave he's arguably been their best player over the last 2 seasons