Wasps in the mire - now in administration

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Rugbygramps
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by Rugbygramps »

BigDan50 wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 3:21 pm Let’s hope that Wasps can sort out their financial problems and remain a premiership club, we need Wasps to be a competitive team as to lose them would diminish the league in so many ways.
I do agree on the playing side. Their lack of financial management does trouble me though.
sk 88
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by sk 88 »

Wasps structure is thus:

Wasps Holding is the top co. It is owned off shore by a Maltese company ultimately controlled by Derek Richardson.

WH owns three companies: Wasps Finance, Arena Coventry Ltd, IEC Experience mangement.

ACL is the management company of the area, it posses the 250 year lease on the arena land.
IEC is the company which runs the hospitality at the arena.
Wasps Finance has issued the bond.

The bond is secured on all of Wasps holdings assets, specifically including the lease on the land & the Premiership P share (now called "invested units"). Wasps Holdings has a sub lease of 50 years from ACL.

They do also own their training ground in Henley in Arden that is not chicken feed, probably a few million I would think.

All previous instances of a team going into administration in the Premiership has seen them kicked out of the whole league. While that was, is and remains a hugely disproportionate response I would think Richmond & London Scottish would be interested if it wasn't applied this time.

A possibility is that the rent on Wasps & CCFC leases is enough to find a passive investment fund to buy the arena to play the long game. While it's not a great option (for anyone) it has to be on the cards.
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Rugbygramps
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by Rugbygramps »

SK 88 thank you for that clarification for those of us with a lack of financial knowledge
Old Hob
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by Old Hob »

SK88, I seem to recall that when the bond was first announced it was proposed to be unsecured which gave me the shivers.
Is my memory faulty (highly likely), did they change it or is it actually unsecured?
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wigworth
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by wigworth »

Old Hob wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:52 pm SK88, I seem to recall that when the bond was first announced it was proposed to be unsecured which gave me the shivers.
Is my memory faulty (highly likely), did they change it or is it actually unsecured?

It was secured with the assets of the club and the stadium, which was valued at £48.5m in 2015.
sk 88
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by sk 88 »

wigworth wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:56 pm
Old Hob wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:52 pm SK88, I seem to recall that when the bond was first announced it was proposed to be unsecured which gave me the shivers.
Is my memory faulty (highly likely), did they change it or is it actually unsecured?

It was secured with the assets of the club and the stadium, which was valued at £48.5m in 2015.
Correct, bond is secured on all the assets of the club.

I think this could be quite a prolonged thing for Wasps, unless they sell the stadium themselves I think they will just keep delaying things until the bond holders force the issue.

For them to do that they need 25% by value or 10% by value to call an extraordinary meeting then pass the resolution there. The trustees are unlikely to force the issue without that for a long while. It could be Christmas before the trustees decide that they need to act.

Are Premiership rugby happy at having a club with the sword of Damocles hanging over it's head by a thread?
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teds
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by teds »

sk 88 wrote: Mon Jul 11, 2022 8:59 pm Wasps structure is thus:

Wasps Holding is the top co. It is owned off shore by a Maltese company ultimately controlled by Derek Richardson.

WH owns three companies: Wasps Finance, Arena Coventry Ltd, IEC Experience mangement.

ACL is the management company of the area, it posses the 250 year lease on the arena land.
IEC is the company which runs the hospitality at the arena.
Wasps Finance has issued the bond.

The bond is secured on all of Wasps holdings assets, specifically including the lease on the land & the Premiership P share (now called "invested units"). Wasps Holdings has a sub lease of 50 years from ACL.

They do also own their training ground in Henley in Arden that is not chicken feed, probably a few million I would think.

All previous instances of a team going into administration in the Premiership has seen them kicked out of the whole league. While that was, is and remains a hugely disproportionate response I would think Richmond & London Scottish would be interested if it wasn't applied this time.

A possibility is that the rent on Wasps & CCFC leases is enough to find a passive investment fund to buy the arena to play the long game. While it's not a great option (for anyone) it has to be on the cards.
Sorry SK88 if I have missed this, but which part of the company are the players employed by?
sk 88
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by sk 88 »

Wasps Holding are "the club", there is no child company hived off for the rugby.
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mol2
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by mol2 »

Not suggesting that there is any suggestion of deliberate impropriatry but I would be surprsed if the corporate lawyers hadn't got the different arms of the operation safely protected from the other's failure before going down this path with a bond release.

Do we actually know who owns the dept?
The entity that owns the ground?
The entity that leases it?
The one that owns the team?

The term holding gives the impression of a singe overarching business but often the holdings that they hold are actually separate limited companys.

So the bond gets offered by the company that owns the rights to use the ground but the ground is owned by another company. The team that owns the rights lets Wasps play there.

Bond issuer goes bust, the rights to use the ground revert to the owners who continue to let Wasps play there and the team carries on. Reputation damaged but that's all.

Bond holders lose out and wish they hadn't bet on that horse and come out of it carrying the loss.
Rugbygramps
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by Rugbygramps »

As mentioned earlier in the thread Derick Richardson is very much the head honcho and the man who came up with the scheme. I assume therefore he would be the man with the answers
sk 88
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by sk 88 »

mol2 wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 3:25 pm Not suggesting that there is any suggestion of deliberate impropriatry but I would be surprsed if the corporate lawyers hadn't got the different arms of the operation safely protected from the other's failure before going down this path with a bond release.

Do we actually know who owns the dept?
The entity that owns the ground?
The entity that leases it?
The one that owns the team?

The term holding gives the impression of a singe overarching business but often the holdings that they hold are actually separate limited companys.

So the bond gets offered by the company that owns the rights to use the ground but the ground is owned by another company. The team that owns the rights lets Wasps play there.

Bond issuer goes bust, the rights to use the ground revert to the owners who continue to let Wasps play there and the team carries on. Reputation damaged but that's all.

Bond holders lose out and wish they hadn't bet on that horse and come out of it carrying the loss.
The debt is secured upon ALL of Wasps holdings assets, specifically being the senior debt on the lease and barring them from any mortgage on the ground (other than to re-pay the bonds).

I don't think that scenario is very likely, or indeed possible.
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nasher
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by nasher »

I do not care ifwasps or any other professional club go bust. Chuck them out of the league and give someone else a chance. All professional sport today is governed by money.Where you play, who you play is all about how much money will I make. Playing standards, player welfare are way down the list of concern . If you join in and cannot sustain the club financially get out of the sport entirely do not expect us fans to bail them out.
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by tigerburnie »

nasher wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 5:25 pm I do not care ifwasps or any other professional club go bust. Chuck them out of the league and give someone else a chance. All professional sport today is governed by money.Where you play, who you play is all about how much money will I make. Playing standards, player welfare are way down the list of concern . If you join in and cannot sustain the club financially get out of the sport entirely do not expect us fans to bail them out.
I take it you're not happy then..............................................................................................?
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BigDan50
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by BigDan50 »

So would you care if Tigers go bust etc, would you want them thrown out of the league?
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by ads »

To be quite honest, I don't think I'd be bothered if wasps went tits up. Other clubs I'd be sad about but wasps have moved around too much and messed fans around so they're not the club they were. To me anyway.
Make your bed and lie in it sort of thing. Or reap what you sow, how ever you want to put it....
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