Wasps in the mire - now in administration

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Scott1
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by Scott1 »

Darc Tiger wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:13 pm Wasps being chased by HMRC...
Source please?
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Scott1
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by Scott1 »

"Rugby isn't a contact sport,ballroom dancing is a contact sport. Rugby is a collision sport" Heyneke Meyer
Old Hob
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by Old Hob »

All the attention seems to be on Worcester now. Does anyone know what the situation in Coventry is?
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

Old Hob wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:55 am All the attention seems to be on Worcester now. Does anyone know what the situation in Coventry is?
The trustees were asking all bond holders to contact them by Friday about whether they could share contact details of each other.

This is due to the rules about them need certain percentages of them to vote on actions.

If they got enough of a group that could well be bad for Wasps as them being organised able to coordinate and operate as a group means votes on things may force things to happen sooner rather than delaying tactics they're using.
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TigerFeetSteve
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

https://uk.advfn.com/stock-market/londo ... share-chat

This link is to a investment chat about this, think the deadline on contact details to the Trustees is today
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ads
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by ads »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62674999

Still signing players though...
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by Hot_Charlie »

ads wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 10:41 am https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62674999

Still signing players though...
At a very low level though. Seems to have been on trial all summer and is going straight out on loan to the Championship. I wonder what the terms of his last two months employment have been?!

Moneyball, or No-moneyball? (that said, maybe what will become a typical signing with the lower cap)
sk 88
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by sk 88 »

Old Hob wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:55 am All the attention seems to be on Worcester now. Does anyone know what the situation in Coventry is?
Wasps last statement was that they wanted to do a formal consent solicitation "in August" to extend the terms of the bond, this would technically remove it from default & give them breathing room to again fail to refinance whenever it ends.

The quorums needed to amend the bonds in this way are HIGH (75%+ of holders by face value) unless they known who is control large amounts of the bonds (unlikely) it is fairly unlikely to pass without it being quite a big change (for instance 15% coupon & 2 year extension including the 3 months that have already passed).

August obviously ends on Wednesday, so either we will get their proposal or they will miss yet another deadline next week.

Unless/until the bond is formally extended they are at risk of the bond trustees stepping in at anytime with an acceleration to pay notice. That would give them 28 days to pay the £35m or the bond holders would then start proceedings to take over the stadium lease as security. That would be curtains for Wasps as they'd have nowhere to play, which is a prerequisite to staying in the league structure in the RFU regulations. That can also happen at anytime is 25% of the bond holders instruct the trustees to issue the notice.

Given these bonds were marketed at unsophisticated personal investors, rather than professional funds, I think their conduct at the moment is the real scandal. There will be bondholders who desperately need the money, and it is currently being held hostage despite an obligation in the issuing prospectus for their to be a trading market for the bonds & despite Wasps stating the re-financing was in hand prior to the May default. Some of these people will have compelling hard luck stories so the press could get very ugly for Wasps & soon, particularly if they try to force something through that means the bondholders do not get redeemed at par.
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by trendylfj »

Unless there is NO wasp or Warriors in the future, I cannot see that they would not apply for reg 5.5.9 exemption. That states that the RFU have the power to waive any sanction (points deduction or relegation if they decide that insolvency was "not the fault of the club. It seems that a club can apply for a "no-fault insolvency event". They would then have to blame the pandemic for the resultant insolvency which it is entitled to do under the regs. After reading the regs, the relegation issue is a none starter unless the RFU decides that they waited until after the issue of fixtures before announcing the problem in order to avoid relegation. As far as I can see the only sanction after the fixtures have been announced is a 35 point deduction.

Here are the relevant sections.

5.5.6 Subject to Regulation 5.5.8, where a Club suffers an Insolvency Event after the end of the Season and after the playing schedules have been set for the following Season, that Club’s most senior first XV team, as determined by the RFU, shall in respect of the following Season incur a 35 point deduction and there shall be no right of appeal for any such Club. Where the RFU is satisfied that the Insolvency Event was unavoidable before the end of the Season and had been delayed by the Club in order to avoid relegation, it shall be entitled in its absolute discretion to impose a further points deduction against that Club’s most senior first XV team and/or relegate that team the following Season to the League below that in which it participated at the time the Insolvency Event occurred, and there shall be no right of appeal for any such Club.

No-fault Insolvency Events
5.5.9 Upon an affected Club’s application the RFU may in its absolute discretion reduce or waive in its entirety any sanction that would otherwise apply to a Club under Regulations 5.5.5 to 5.5.8 where it is satisfied that the Insolvency Event would not
have occurred but for an event or circumstance which was beyond the control and without the fault or negligence of the affected Club and which by the exercise of reasonable diligence the affected Club was unable to prevent, including (but not limited to): riot, war, invasion, act of foreign enemies, acts of terrorism, earthquakes, flood, fire or other physical natural disaster, strikes at national level or industrial disputes at a national level and any epidemic or pandemic as categorised as such by the UK Government and/or the World Health Organisation.
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sam16111986
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by sam16111986 »

sk 88 wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 2:06 pm
Old Hob wrote: Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:55 am All the attention seems to be on Worcester now. Does anyone know what the situation in Coventry is?
Wasps last statement was that they wanted to do a formal consent solicitation "in August" to extend the terms of the bond, this would technically remove it from default & give them breathing room to again fail to refinance whenever it ends.

The quorums needed to amend the bonds in this way are HIGH (75%+ of holders by face value) unless they known who is control large amounts of the bonds (unlikely) it is fairly unlikely to pass without it being quite a big change (for instance 15% coupon & 2 year extension including the 3 months that have already passed).

August obviously ends on Wednesday, so either we will get their proposal or they will miss yet another deadline next week.

Unless/until the bond is formally extended they are at risk of the bond trustees stepping in at anytime with an acceleration to pay notice. That would give them 28 days to pay the £35m or the bond holders would then start proceedings to take over the stadium lease as security. That would be curtains for Wasps as they'd have nowhere to play, which is a prerequisite to staying in the league structure in the RFU regulations. That can also happen at anytime is 25% of the bond holders instruct the trustees to issue the notice.

Given these bonds were marketed at unsophisticated personal investors, rather than professional funds, I think their conduct at the moment is the real scandal. There will be bondholders who desperately need the money, and it is currently being held hostage despite an obligation in the issuing prospectus for their to be a trading market for the bonds & despite Wasps stating the re-financing was in hand prior to the May default. Some of these people will have compelling hard luck stories so the press could get very ugly for Wasps & soon, particularly if they try to force something through that means the bondholders do not get redeemed at par.
They'd sign a rental agreement I'm sure.

If not there's some smaller football league clubs that would happily have them. Wallsall has a football capacity of more than 11k. With no requirement for keeping home and away fans apart then that could increase.
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by Rugbygramps »

With their current financial woes I can’t see any new landlord wanting to touch them, without a very large pre payment. Within the last month they have struggled to pay a pitch maintenance contract.
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by longlivethecrumbie »

Claim from Marcello Cossali-Francis that the Warriors current owners proposed a merger with Wasps: https://twitter.com/Mcossalifrancis/sta ... Fm_Wg&s=19
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by sam16111986 »

Rugbygramps wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 4:21 pm With their current financial woes I can’t see any new landlord wanting to touch them, without a very large pre payment. Within the last month they have struggled to pay a pitch maintenance contract.
I thought the two gigs and commonwealth sevens after a long season of two sports had caused natural damage. Followed by any company coming to do pitch maintenance wanting the whole thing paid up front because of the bond issue.

Unlike Worcester who have lots of small businesses chasing them, Wasps problems so far seem to revolve around the bonds that are overdue for repayment and Cov City wanting to complain and put the boot in wherever possible. Wasps owe HMRC but from what I've read that's a time to pay arrangement which wasn't unusual during Covid, wouldn't be surprised if all the Prem clubs had one of those.
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by Rugbygramps »

sam16111986 wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:24 am
Rugbygramps wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 4:21 pm With their current financial woes I can’t see any new landlord wanting to touch them, without a very large pre payment. Within the last month they have struggled to pay a pitch maintenance contract.
I thought the two gigs and commonwealth sevens after a long season of two sports had caused natural damage. Followed by any company coming to do pitch maintenance wanting the whole thing paid up front because of the bond issue.

Unlike Worcester who have lots of small businesses chasing them, Wasps problems so far seem to revolve around the bonds that are overdue for repayment and Cov City wanting to complain and put the boot in wherever possible. Wasps owe HMRC but from what I've read that's a time to pay arrangement which wasn't unusual during Covid, wouldn't be surprised if all the Prem clubs had one of those.
That’s what I meant Sam it was the post Commonwealth treatment that didn’t take place due to payment up front being required.
You are quite right that the reasons for both clubs woes are completely different with the same potential ending
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by wormus »

No cash for the pitch relaying / repairs and now the hotel complex deal collapses. Not good for Wasps!
- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-c ... e-62724995
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