Wasps in the mire - now in administration

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mol2
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by mol2 »

I am sure none of us want any clubs to go bust, if nothing else because of the implications for the many people who rely on them for employment.

However if any club does go bust then the same rules have to apply to them all. You go dowm to whatever level is set as the requirement.

I thingk the restrictions on teams wishing to be promoted are rstrictive. Certainly I cannot justify a potentially promoted team having to meet demands that some of the other sides alreay in the Premiership don't already meet. (There has been more than enough tiome for every club to improve their facilities to the minumum standard of any club seeking promotion).

So set a recommended standard by all means but the minimum standard has to be equal to the lowest already in the league. No more artificial barriers. If sides feel they lack the finanaces to be promoted them by all means they have the right to decline to minimise the risk of promotion followed by relegation and bancruptcy.
jgriffin
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by jgriffin »

Wasps go tits up, time for a sledge - invite Cardiff and Scarlets to join the Prem!
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longlivethecrumbie
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by longlivethecrumbie »

jgriffin wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:56 am Wasps go tits up, time for a sledge - invite Cardiff and Scarlets to join the Prem!
They should have formed an Anglo Welsh league when professionalism first landed.
Cagey Tiger
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by Cagey Tiger »

longlivethecrumbie wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 9:27 am
jgriffin wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:56 am Wasps go tits up, time for a sledge - invite Cardiff and Scarlets to join the Prem!
They should have formed an Anglo Welsh league when professionalism first landed.
Wouldn't that have meant 24 teams? Tbe Welsh regions came into being quite a bit later.
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by RagingBull »

would’ve been better for the championship
Scott1
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by Scott1 »

jgriffin wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:56 am Wasps go tits up, time for a sledge - invite Cardiff and Scarlets to join the Prem!
I’d take the Welsh teams,great idea!
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mol2
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by mol2 »

That horse has bolted.
Having a combined Anglo-Welsh league might have worked a few years ago when the Welsh sides were still clubs but I don't see much of a reason to allow the centrally funded regions into the league.
Clubs are clubs, regions are regions and the two don't really have the same goals and funding. In many ways that is what is killing the Hineken cup with very little hope for the clubs (aside from the mega-rich French) competing with the Regions given the salary cap constraints to preserve the clubs' future.

At that time a competitive 2 division set up made of the then Welsh clubs, the Premiership clubs and the better championship sides would have been an interesting option with greater ease for sides to move up from lower divisions to Premiership 2 then Premiership 1 as there would be lessof a gulf between the top championship sides and the bottom of the lower Premiership division and likewise between P2 and P1.
sk 88
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by sk 88 »

For me, Wasps going bust in these circumstances is very different to a club normally going bust by getting caught in a spiral of spending & poor revenues, like Worcester might be at risk of for instance.

Wasps up rooted themselves away from their community & into another proud historic club's area, took this money knowing this was a real and material risk, it was on the cards from the very beginning, and have then burned through the cash with little to no regard for paying it back & are now messing their normal investors around holding their money hostage.
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GB72
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by GB72 »

sk 88 wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 10:34 am For me, Wasps going bust in these circumstances is very different to a club normally going bust by getting caught in a spiral of spending & poor revenues, like Worcester might be at risk of for instance.

Wasps up rooted themselves away from their community & into another proud historic club's area, took this money knowing this was a real and material risk, it was on the cards from the very beginning, and have then burned through the cash with little to no regard for paying it back & are now messing their normal investors around holding their money hostage.
That does bring up the question as to when you stop being classed as a club with all of the associated history and become simply a franchise. Do Wasp deserve any feelings of remourse based on the situation that an historic club is now in or did that club die long ago and what remains is a modern franchise using the name but with no connection to the history.
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by Hot_Charlie »

sk 88 wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 10:34 am For me, Wasps going bust in these circumstances is very different to a club normally going bust by getting caught in a spiral of spending & poor revenues, like Worcester might be at risk of for instance.

Wasps up rooted themselves away from their community & into another proud historic club's area, took this money knowing this was a real and material risk, it was on the cards from the very beginning, and have then burned through the cash with little to no regard for paying it back & are now messing their normal investors around holding their money hostage.
...and have royally disenfranchised a huge proportion of their potential "new" fanbase by making the local, well supported, local football team play seasons in both Northampton and Birmingham.

How to win friends and influence...
jgriffin
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by jgriffin »

mol2 wrote: Tue Jul 19, 2022 1:04 pm That horse has bolted.
Having a combined Anglo-Welsh league might have worked a few years ago when the Welsh sides were still clubs but I don't see much of a reason to allow the centrally funded regions into the league.
Clubs are clubs, regions are regions and the two don't really have the same goals and funding. In many ways that is what is killing the Hineken cup with very little hope for the clubs (aside from the mega-rich French) competing with the Regions given the salary cap constraints to preserve the clubs' future.

At that time a competitive 2 division set up made of the then Welsh clubs, the Premiership clubs and the better championship sides would have been an interesting option with greater ease for sides to move up from lower divisions to Premiership 2 then Premiership 1 as there would be lessof a gulf between the top championship sides and the bottom of the lower Premiership division and likewise between P2 and P1.
Yep the WRU messed up at the formation of the Prem - there would've been two divisions and the top 4 Welsh teams were 2 in each, which they baulked at. Arguably the worst of many bad WRU decisions. Why I think it's a possible now is that Welsh rugby is literally dying below international level, and the love of the Welsh fans for English clubs :smt005 could make for renewed 'interest', as well as providing a fresh injection of finance. Scarlets and Ospreys deffo meet criteria, Blues ground not so sure capacity wise. Dragons have been made a club again. The club/region thing is not so much of an issue under unified cap regs. Of course 15 into 14........ :smt017 :smt017
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Scott1
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by Scott1 »

"Rugby isn't a contact sport,ballroom dancing is a contact sport. Rugby is a collision sport" Heyneke Meyer
bendy
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by bendy »

This is sounding worse and worse.
TigerFeetSteve
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

Not an expert (so correct me if I'm wrong) but reading it I think it can be summarised as follows.

Wasps have tried to borrow money to refinance it. That's been turned down.

Now they have to try and get the bond holders to agree to new terms of they will default.

From what I've seen the bond holders are already upset with Wasps due to poor communication over the bonds... think they may struggle a bit here...
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Nofrontteeth
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Re: Wasps still in the mire

Post by Nofrontteeth »

An example of a 'franchise' moving from its traditional roots?
It ain't like American Footy where the sugar daddies/bank rollers are happy to move the product with confidence on the new audience adopting the brand now carrying their name.

When our game went pro you had far more suvival confidence in the historic 'core' clubs, Tigers Saints, Glaws and alike than the clubs with financial backing and no fans.
On that point anyone on Forum know what was Wasps typical 'gate numbers' before Coventry and what are they since?
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