Wasps in the mire - now in administration

Forum to discuss everything that is Tigers related

Moderators: Tigerbeat, Rizzo, Tigers Press Office, Tigers Webmaster

Post Reply
Hot_Charlie
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4041
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:30 pm
Location: Lincoln

Re: Wasps in the mire - now in administration

Post by Hot_Charlie »

Rugbygramps wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 9:13 am Unless I’m miss reading things I think posters are getting confused. The regulations state, as I understand, that if they are not able to play their fixtures at the Coventry Arena in the championship next season they will then be demoted to the bottom of the league structure, which if taken literally will be the same level as Old Newts and South Leicester play at.
If that is the case the question as to which stadium they play in will be a mute point.
Have you got a link the relevant regulations, out of interest. I only ask as they're a nightmare to find.

Also, I suspect there could be some wiggle room in the negotiations based on the somewhat complex and extreme circumstances.
Rugbygramps
Super User
Super User
Posts: 7248
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:29 pm

Re: Wasps in the mire - now in administration

Post by Rugbygramps »

Hot_Charlie wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:40 am
Rugbygramps wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 9:13 am Unless I’m miss reading things I think posters are getting confused. The regulations state, as I understand, that if they are not able to play their fixtures at the Coventry Arena in the championship next season they will then be demoted to the bottom of the league structure, which if taken literally will be the same level as Old Newts and South Leicester play at.
If that is the case the question as to which stadium they play in will be a mute point.
Have you got a link the relevant regulations, out of interest. I only ask as they're a nightmare to find.

Also, I suspect there could be some wiggle room in the negotiations based on the somewhat complex and extreme circumstances.
Unfortunately not I’m basing my opinion on that of other knowledgeable posters.
You say complex and extreme, to a degree yes, but IMO this has nothing to do with Covid, other than it accelerated it somewhat. This is a case of bad management and a dodgy business plan from day one. Other clubs have to exist within the rules why should an exception be made for Wasps. This is no one’s fault other than those who run/own the club.
ads
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1512
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: Born Leic, Live Leeds

Re: Wasps in the mire - now in administration

Post by ads »

What happens if the new owners of the ground won't let them play there? Surely the RFU will have to let them find a new home....

Seems a bit rediculous really, I don't want Wasps getting preferential treatment but no-one wants them in Cov so I say let go somewhere else.
jgriffin
Super User
Super User
Posts: 8074
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:49 pm
Location: On the edge of oblivion

Re: Wasps in the mire - now in administration

Post by jgriffin »

Apparently goodbye to women's team
Leicester Tigers 1995-
Nottingham 1995-2000
Swansea (Whites) 1988-95
A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.
Rugbygramps
Super User
Super User
Posts: 7248
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:29 pm

Re: Wasps in the mire - now in administration

Post by Rugbygramps »

ads wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 11:29 am What happens if the new owners of the ground won't let them play there? Surely the RFU will have to let them find a new home....

Seems a bit rediculous really, I don't want Wasps getting preferential treatment but no-one wants them in Cov so I say let go somewhere else.
Again playing devils advocate why? They haven’t had their own ground since the old days in Sudbury.
They were tenants at QPR, High Wycombe and now Coventry, surely it’s time to settle down.
Rugbygramps
Super User
Super User
Posts: 7248
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:29 pm

Re: Wasps in the mire - now in administration

Post by Rugbygramps »

jgriffin wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 11:38 am Apparently goodbye to women's team
That is sad, a situation they had very little or no control over.
Hot_Charlie
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4041
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:30 pm
Location: Lincoln

Re: Wasps in the mire - now in administration

Post by Hot_Charlie »

Rugbygramps wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 11:04 am You say complex and extreme, to a degree yes, but IMO this has nothing to do with Covid, other than it accelerated it somewhat. This is a case of bad management and a dodgy business plan from day one. Other clubs have to exist within the rules why should an exception be made for Wasps. This is no one’s fault other than those who run/own the club.
I'm not saying Covid has got anything to do with it. By complex circumstances I'm more referring to the whole stadium ownership issue, being "owned" by Wasps yet at the same time not being owned by them. Which makes things difficult, as of course that sale will be completely unrelated to the sale of the rugby side of the business.

In that respect, if (big if) they could find somewhere else to play, I think they could present a fairly decent argument to both PRL and the RFU to be allowed to move yet retain Championship status.
Last edited by Hot_Charlie on Fri Nov 04, 2022 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Hot_Charlie
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4041
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:30 pm
Location: Lincoln

Re: Wasps in the mire - now in administration

Post by Hot_Charlie »

ads wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 11:29 am What happens if the new owners of the ground won't let them play there? Surely the RFU will have to let them find a new home....

Seems a bit rediculous really, I don't want Wasps getting preferential treatment but no-one wants them in Cov so I say let go somewhere else.
Exactly.
TigerFeetSteve
Super User
Super User
Posts: 7414
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:23 am

Re: Wasps in the mire - now in administration

Post by TigerFeetSteve »

Hot_Charlie wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:40 am
Rugbygramps wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 9:13 am Unless I’m miss reading things I think posters are getting confused. The regulations state, as I understand, that if they are not able to play their fixtures at the Coventry Arena in the championship next season they will then be demoted to the bottom of the league structure, which if taken literally will be the same level as Old Newts and South Leicester play at.
If that is the case the question as to which stadium they play in will be a mute point.
Have you got a link the relevant regulations, out of interest. I only ask as they're a nightmare to find.

Also, I suspect there could be some wiggle room in the negotiations based on the somewhat complex and extreme circumstances.
https://www.englandrugby.com/dxdam/7c/7 ... ix%202.pdf


First bullet point on page1
Used to run around with an 11, 14 or 15 on my back.
Rugbygramps
Super User
Super User
Posts: 7248
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:29 pm

Re: Wasps in the mire - now in administration

Post by Rugbygramps »

Hot_Charlie wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 11:41 am
Rugbygramps wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 11:04 am You say complex and extreme, to a degree yes, but IMO this has nothing to do with Covid, other than it accelerated it somewhat. This is a case of bad management and a dodgy business plan from day one. Other clubs have to exist within the rules why should an exception be made for Wasps. This is no one’s fault other than those who run/own the club.
I'm not saying Covid has got anything to do with it (I didn't mention it). By complex circumstances I'm more referring to the whole stadium ownership issue, being "owned" by Wasps yet at the same time not being owned by them. Which makes things difficult, as of course that sale will be completely unrelated to the sale of the rugby side of the business.

In that respect, if (big if) they could find somewhere else to play, I think they could present a fairly decent argument to both PRL and the RFU to be allowed to move yet retain Championship status.
Sorry I thought you were implying Covid. But again all of this ground owned by a parent company etc. is all down to business practices trying to minimise risk and liability.
London Welsh, arguably a better known and more historic rugby name than Wasps, had very similar happen to them and there were no allowances made.
Hot_Charlie
Super User
Super User
Posts: 4041
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:30 pm
Location: Lincoln

Re: Wasps in the mire - now in administration

Post by Hot_Charlie »

TigerFeetSteve wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 11:42 am
Hot_Charlie wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:40 am
Rugbygramps wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 9:13 am Unless I’m miss reading things I think posters are getting confused. The regulations state, as I understand, that if they are not able to play their fixtures at the Coventry Arena in the championship next season they will then be demoted to the bottom of the league structure, which if taken literally will be the same level as Old Newts and South Leicester play at.
If that is the case the question as to which stadium they play in will be a mute point.
Have you got a link the relevant regulations, out of interest. I only ask as they're a nightmare to find.

Also, I suspect there could be some wiggle room in the negotiations based on the somewhat complex and extreme circumstances.
https://www.englandrugby.com/dxdam/7c/7 ... ix%202.pdf


First bullet point on page1
Thanks. The devil appears to be in the detail. Although the expectation is the "phoenix" club will use their current ground (and needs to provide the evidence to support this), there is one key line later on:
In addition to those requirements set out above, examples of conditions that
may be imposed
are set out below.
(a) The Ground
Any necessary lease or licence arrangements required to satisfy the RFU that the
Phoenix Entity has the right to use the ground will need to be entered into.
So "may" be imposed. Which implies there could be wriggle-room if circumstances dictated. I suspect in lieu of this the "phoenix" club would need to have a similar arrangement and an RFU approved ground to be able to present an argument.
Offside
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 953
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:37 pm

Re: Wasps in the mire - now in administration

Post by Offside »

Rugbygramps wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 11:41 am
jgriffin wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 11:38 am Apparently goodbye to women's team
That is sad, a situation they had very little or no control over.
I thought the Wasps women played at the ground of the Wasps amateur team in London. Photos suggest they have the same /similar sponsorship with Vodafone but they are semi pro and not based at CBS arena.
Tigerbeat
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 7249
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:14 pm
Location: The big wide world

Re: Wasps in the mire - now in administration

Post by Tigerbeat »

I would think that they have a case for Covid as the hotel and casino which are part of the stadium brought in no revenue....with that revenue they may have been able to make payments to HMRC and stay alive.....having debt similar to other clubs.
SUPPORT THE MATT HAMPSON TRUST
www.matthampson.co.uk
sk 88
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 943
Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 5:33 pm

Re: Wasps in the mire - now in administration

Post by sk 88 »

Tigerbeat wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 12:23 pm I would think that they have a case for Covid as the hotel and casino which are part of the stadium brought in no revenue....with that revenue they may have been able to make payments to HMRC and stay alive.....having debt similar to other clubs.
They haven't got debt similar to other clubs at all though, they've got about 10 times the commercial debt of anyone else and covid or not there was no way they were ever going to be able to re-finance their bond.

It wasn't during covid that they stopped paying HMRC it was this summer.
Goooooodeeeeeyyyyy!
sk 88
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 943
Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 5:33 pm

Re: Wasps in the mire - now in administration

Post by sk 88 »

Offside wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 12:15 pm
Rugbygramps wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 11:41 am
jgriffin wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 11:38 am Apparently goodbye to women's team
That is sad, a situation they had very little or no control over.
I thought the Wasps women played at the ground of the Wasps amateur team in London. Photos suggest they have the same /similar sponsorship with Vodafone but they are semi pro and not based at CBS arena.
Yes, they are technically the women's section of Wasps F.C. the amateur offshoot that took the non-pro teams (e.g. 4ths, minis) in the 90s. They play at Twyford Avenue in London. They did share sponsors with Wasps RFC so were affected by Wasps bankruptcy but they have been announced as finishing this season, unless there has been a new development I've missed.
Goooooodeeeeeyyyyy!
Post Reply