The next England Coach.

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Smudge
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The next England Coach.

Post by Smudge »

Much heated debate in my local club after the game this evening about who should replace Jones when he goes. (Hopefully soon).
Baxter was most people's favourite but is certainly not the only name in the hat.
Surprisingly, Mark McCall has a lot of admirers as do Farrell and our own DOR.
Not a single proponent of Cockers or Deano but Matson could be an outside bet!

I appreciate there is no vacancy at the moment but it can't be long in coming.
What do you feel about the names mentioned or do you have other names to put forward?
Whether they would want it now is a mute point so don't rule anyone out for that reason.
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longlivethecrumbie
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Re: The next England Coach.

Post by longlivethecrumbie »

There's not that many names out there really at the moment.

If the job came up at the end of the 6N then I'm fairly certain that Borthwick would turn it down. I also don't think that Baxter would want it either. I think he'd be more suited to the daily grind of club management rather than the periodic nature of international rugby.

I think the list of coaches who wouldn't want the job is much longer then those who would
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Re: The next England Coach.

Post by Wayne Richardson Fan Club »

Knowing the RFU they would appoint Gatland.
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RagingBull
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Re: The next England Coach.

Post by RagingBull »

the only people who would take a head coach role now are either the assistants or desperate.
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Re: The next England Coach.

Post by Rugbygramps »

Can the RFU afford to sack him financially
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Re: The next England Coach.

Post by Cardiff Tig »

England came 5th in th 2018 six nations and then almost won the World Cup in 2019. It was a very narrow loss to a decent Scotland team in Murrayfield, first game up in the tournament.

I think there's some over-reaction on here (unheard of I know :smt002). I'd actually be more worried if we were peaking now and had to maintain it until autumn 2023 a bit like Ireland in the last WC cycle.
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Re: The next England Coach.

Post by trendylfj »

For me, it would be Baxter but unless the wheels come off big time, the will be no change soon. One other point, very pleased that George got a run but still could not understand the timing of the substitution. I would have left Smith on and held George back until there was a bigger margin - George did nothing wrong at all but just felt it was too early to change things.
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Re: The next England Coach.

Post by jgriffin »

Baxter for one is fairly adamant he isn't interested. I would doubt Borthwick either as if Tigers have a couple of dominant seasons he will be in demand at other clubs in Europe as well. If he keeps the team together then I think the whole coaching team might be a shoo in.
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Re: The next England Coach.

Post by Postiger2 »

Cardiff Tig wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:07 am England came 5th in th 2018 six nations and then almost won the World Cup in 2019. It was a very narrow loss to a decent Scotland team in Murrayfield, first game up in the tournament.

I think there's some over-reaction on here (unheard of I know :smt002). I'd actually be more worried if we were peaking now and had to maintain it until autumn 2023 a bit like Ireland in the last WC cycle.
I think he's a very good coach but I also think he's come to the end of the road. What was the philosophy yesterday? It was a confusion, as were a number of last year's 6N performances. The somewhat fortuitous win over SA papers over the cracks for me. I just don't see him taking England to the next level. He came in and improved the team but we've been more or less at the same level since.

It's not the loss, it's the muddled thinking over a reasonable period of time that troubles me. Ditching players who come in and do well, regularly picking players in the wrong positions, his obsession with finishers, even when they're not needed. I question whether he has the full confidence of the England players.
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Re: The next England Coach.

Post by Scott1 »

I'm OK with him at present, I remember the 2017/18 Ireland team that blew the RWC because they peaked too early. It's all about 2023 for me. Haters gonna hate....
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Re: The next England Coach.

Post by Crofty »

Scott1 wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 12:43 pm I'm OK with him at present, I remember the 2017/18 Ireland team that blew the RWC because they peaked too early. It's all about 2023 for me. Haters gonna hate....
This. Let's be frank, we lost a tight game we were somewhat expecting to lose by more, having outplayed the opposition for large swaths of the match basically because of a few individual errors by a team ravaged by injuries and full of (relatively) inexperienced players. We're 18 months out from from a World Cup, a far more important tournament than the 6 Nations, now is not the time to sack the coach in a wild panic because we chucked away a game of rugby.
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Re: The next England Coach.

Post by Tiglon »

Definitely wouldn't sack Jones before the WC now. After last years 6N would have been the time if you wanted to.

When the time comes I expect it will be another overseas candidate, wouldn't be surprised to see Schmidt or Gatland. But you never know with the RFU, they seem to go a completely different way every time. Did someone say "headless chickens"...?
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Re: The next England Coach.

Post by ABClub »

Postiger2 wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:44 am
Cardiff Tig wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:07 am England came 5th in th 2018 six nations and then almost won the World Cup in 2019. It was a very narrow loss to a decent Scotland team in Murrayfield, first game up in the tournament.

I think there's some over-reaction on here (unheard of I know :smt002). I'd actually be more worried if we were peaking now and had to maintain it until autumn 2023 a bit like Ireland in the last WC cycle.
I think he's a very good coach but I also think he's come to the end of the road. What was the philosophy yesterday? It was a confusion, as were a number of last year's 6N performances. The somewhat fortuitous win over SA papers over the cracks for me. I just don't see him taking England to the next level. He came in and improved the team but we've been more or less at the same level since.

It's not the loss, it's the muddled thinking over a reasonable period of time that troubles me. Ditching players who come in and do well, regularly picking players in the wrong positions, his obsession with finishers, even when they're not needed. I question whether he has the full confidence of the England players.
Conversely I actually feel the decline in our bench impact and lack of 'finishers' now is an issue. Early in Jones tenure we had George, Marler and Sinckler in the front row, Kruis/Lawes/Launchbury in the second row, Care at 9, even Te'o as a centre had some really good bench impact.

At the minute we seem to be using the bench pretty late on and not to great effect.

I think Kruis returning to England will really help this side. The lineout needs that rock solid leader in attack and defence, he could then free up someone such as Lawes as a powerful bench option.

I also wonder if we might see LCD used from the bench in a Malcolm Marx esque role with George starting. Fire Cowan-Dickie on with 30 minutes left as the opposition tire.
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Re: The next England Coach.

Post by Postiger2 »

ABClub wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 1:39 pm
Postiger2 wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:44 am
Cardiff Tig wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 10:07 am England came 5th in th 2018 six nations and then almost won the World Cup in 2019. It was a very narrow loss to a decent Scotland team in Murrayfield, first game up in the tournament.

I think there's some over-reaction on here (unheard of I know :smt002). I'd actually be more worried if we were peaking now and had to maintain it until autumn 2023 a bit like Ireland in the last WC cycle.
I think he's a very good coach but I also think he's come to the end of the road. What was the philosophy yesterday? It was a confusion, as were a number of last year's 6N performances. The somewhat fortuitous win over SA papers over the cracks for me. I just don't see him taking England to the next level. He came in and improved the team but we've been more or less at the same level since.

It's not the loss, it's the muddled thinking over a reasonable period of time that troubles me. Ditching players who come in and do well, regularly picking players in the wrong positions, his obsession with finishers, even when they're not needed. I question whether he has the full confidence of the England players.
Conversely I actually feel the decline in our bench impact and lack of 'finishers' now is an issue. Early in Jones tenure we had George, Marler and Sinckler in the front row, Kruis/Lawes/Launchbury in the second row, Care at 9, even Te'o as a centre had some really good bench impact.

At the minute we seem to be using the bench pretty late on and not to great effect.

I think Kruis returning to England will really help this side. The lineout needs that rock solid leader in attack and defence, he could then free up someone such as Lawes as a powerful bench option.

I also wonder if we might see LCD used from the bench in a Malcolm Marx esque role with George starting. Fire Cowan-Dickie on with 30 minutes left as the opposition tire.
I'd agree with all of that. I'd just add that the lack of powerful finishers meant it made even less sense to bring them on when we did yesterday when we had control of the game. Surrendered control to Scotland by weakening the side. I was screaming at the TV at the time because it just didn't make sense to me to disrupt our flow.

Still, it's done now. On to Italy.
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Re: The next England Coach.

Post by mol2 »

Do we realistically think a Jones team will be in the mix for the World Cup?
Our maul worked well but we didn’t go wide when the opportunity was there. Sounds familiar.

If the answer is no, make the change at the end of the 6N and give the next coach an opportunity to build a team, if not for 2023 but use 2023 to give potential players experience for the future 6N and the 2027 WC.

Sean Edwards must be involved, is he head coach material?
McCall would be high on my list.
From a Tigers angle I hope it’s a bit soon for

Jones is a runner up not a winner as a coach. Not able to find ways of scoring when “Chuck it to Manu or use him as a decoy” isn’t an option.

We could have done with Harry Potter and Dan Kelly yesterday. Marchant is a club player and Daly offered nothing even in his best position.
Last edited by mol2 on Sun Feb 06, 2022 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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