The next England Coach.

[Scott1]

Baxter?!

[Rugbygramps]

Do we realistically think a Jones team will be in the mix for the World Cup?

If the answer is no, make the change at the end of the 6N and give the next coach an opportunity to build a team, if not for 2023 but use 2023 to give potential players experience for the future 6N and the 2027 WC.

Sean Edwards must be involved, is he head coach material?
From a Tigers angle I hope it’s a bit soon for Borthwick.

Can’t see Edwards leaving the French set up before a home World Cup

[mol2]

I agree. We let him get away again.

[cheltexile]

They won't make a coaching change before the world cup, it would be a complete rebuild job and I don't think anyone they would actually want will be available.

Baxter won't do it, and I think its probably too soon for Borthwick.

Cheeky punt on Diamond I reckon

[Smudge]

There's no doubt Mark McCall is a very good coach as he has proved at Ulster and Cheaters. And talking of Ireland, there is a certain English coach who is not doing too bad. (Farrell). Does no one fancy him, assuming he could be released from his contract?
I am old enough to remember when the England coach had not only to be English but to have also played for England.
It's an ethical idea and you could argue that the country that invented the sport with a vastly greater number of players and clubs really should be able to produce a top coach from among them. Obversely, that was the reason the late great Chalky White never got the gig. Back when Tigers were winning double European Championships, Deano would have walked into the job had it been vacant. In retrospect, not a good idea, so success at a club is not a guarantee of the same at international level.
So to take the debate further, who is there in England that could do the job? Rising stars among coaching ranks?
Which oversees coach would be a success for England? There must be many star coaches who would love the job.
I will be greatly interested to see any names along with testaments of their potential.

[Rugbygramps]

There's no doubt Mark McCall is a very good coach as he has proved at Ulster and Cheaters. And talking of Ireland, there is a certain English coach who is not doing too bad. (Farrell). Does no one fancy him, assuming he could be released from his contract?
I am old enough to remember when the England coach had not only to be English but to have also played for England.
It's an ethical idea and you could argue that the country that invented the sport with a vastly greater number of players and clubs really should be able to produce a top coach from among them. Obversely, that was the reason the late great Chalky White never got the gig. Back when Tigers were winning double European Championships, Deano would have walked into the job had it been vacant. In retrospect, not a good idea, so success at a club is not a guarantee of the same at international level.
So to take the debate further, who is there in England that could do the job? Rising stars among coaching ranks?
Which oversees coach would be a success for England? There must be many star coaches who would love the job.
I will be greatly interested to see any names along with testaments of their potential.

Going to disagree with you a little in terms of Richards. I don’t think he has been a coach, more a DOR, listening to players comments you very rarely saw him on the coaching paddock. Also the RFU would never have offered him the job, too much of a maverick, the rowing machine story being one of many

[wigworth]

There's no doubt Mark McCall is a very good coach as he has proved at Ulster and Cheaters. And talking of Ireland, there is a certain English coach who is not doing too bad. (Farrell). Does no one fancy him, assuming he could be released from his contract?
I am old enough to remember when the England coach had not only to be English but to have also played for England.
It's an ethical idea and you could argue that the country that invented the sport with a vastly greater number of players and clubs really should be able to produce a top coach from among them. Obversely, that was the reason the late great Chalky White never got the gig. Back when Tigers were winning double European Championships, Deano would have walked into the job had it been vacant. In retrospect, not a good idea, so success at a club is not a guarantee of the same at international level.
So to take the debate further, who is there in England that could do the job? Rising stars among coaching ranks?
Which oversees coach would be a success for England? There must be many star coaches who would love the job.
I will be greatly interested to see any names along with testaments of their potential.

Scott Robinson must be up there as one of the coaches with the most potential

[Tiglon]

Are World Cups won by the best players or the best coaches?

[Scott1]

Are World Cups won by the best players or the best coaches?

That’s a great question! Looking at NZ you would have to say players

[Scott1]

What I mean by that is I believe that NZ team with McCaw,Read,Kaino,Dagg,Ben Smith,Conrad Smith,Nonu etc etc probably would have cleaned up regardless of whoever was coach but then again we always get told that SCW was the mastermind behind 2003 so perhaps it varies by situation

[tigerburnie]

Are World Cups won by the best players or the best coaches?

A bad coach cost us the last one and Jones admitted that himself.

[Scott1]

Are World Cups won by the best players or the best coaches?

A bad coach cost us the last one and Jones admitted that himself.

He did but I believe he plays the Jose Mourinho role a lot where he takes all the blame himself on purpose to take the heat off his players. We lost the last WC because we were pumped in the scrum,Youngs,Ford and Daly among others were poor,we didn’t have the intensity we had v NZ the week before and mostly lost it because SA were the better team on the day,it happens!

[ABClub]

The scrum in the RWC final was really interesting as both sides only won scrums on their own put in. IIRC England had 3 scrum put ins, retained the ball on all three and won 1 penalty. The Boks had 11 put ins, won the ball on all 11 with 4 penalties.

So there's certainly an argument that had England's unforced error count not been so high, resulting in those 11 put ins for the Boks then the scrum wouldn't have been such an issue.

I think the bigger issue than the scrum was the forwards getting battered in the loose. We couldn't win collisions around the fringes, so couldn't get any momentum. I'm not sure those collisions are an area we've improved either, frustratingly. The decline of the Vunipola bros who carried so much at their peaks combined with our stronger second rows aging, picking up more injuries and being in Japan for Kruis's case has actually made us worse in those areas I think.

Ludlam was very good there yesterday though and I retain hope Underhill will rediscover his best. It's a reason I think Barbeary could suit international rugby well. He's very good at winning those collisions around the fringes which is where momentum is made and lost.

[Scott1]

The scrum in the RWC final was really interesting as both sides only won scrums on their own put in. IIRC England had 3 scrum put ins, retained the ball on all three and won 1 penalty. The Boks had 11 put ins, won the ball on all 11 with 4 penalties.

So there's certainly an argument that had England's unforced error count not been so high, resulting in those 11 put ins for the Boks then the scrum wouldn't have been such an issue.

I think the bigger issue than the scrum was the forwards getting battered in the loose. We couldn't win collisions around the fringes, so couldn't get any momentum. I'm not sure those collisions are an area we've improved either, frustratingly. The decline of the Vunipola bros who carried so much at their peaks combined with our stronger second rows aging, picking up more injuries and being in Japan for Kruis's case has actually made us worse in those areas I think.

Ludlam was very good there yesterday though and I retain hope Underhill will rediscover his best. It's a reason I think Barbeary could suit international rugby well. He's very good at winning those collisions around the fringes which is where momentum is made and lost.

They were almost exactly the same forwards who battered NZ in the loose though the week before, not talking about you obviously,but how are folk blaming Jones for that?! Crazy talk! How many penalties did we win when Marler was on the field at scrum time,i definitely remember one.

[ABClub]

We won one scrum penalty all game. Hence the 3 scrum put ins, one penalty stat. First scrum Marler and Kruis came on for at the start of the second half England got a penalty. The Boks won their fourth scrum pen with Marler on the field as well though.

Basically the side with the put in were largely on top in the scrum. The Boks just had 11 scrum feeds to England's three because of how high our error count was.

The Boks had one of those great games where everything clicked for them. It happens.