AUTUMN INTERNATIONALS 2021

[Jimmy Skitz]

Robshaw was still captain that recently? That feels like an age ago, the rest of my point remains though, Hartley lost the captaincy due to injury due to concussion issues rather than being dropped

[ABClub]

Robshaw was still captain that recently? That feels like an age ago, the rest of my point remains though, Hartley lost the captaincy due to injury due to concussion issues rather than being dropped

Robshaw was Lancaster's captain so Jones inherited him as skipper when he took over in 2016. He immediately got rid of Robshaw and chose Hartley.

Hartley actually got dropped just before the injuries. Hartley was finally benched for George at the end of the 2018 AIs whilst he was still fit. George was the Lions starter in 2017 then went back to benching behind Hartley for the 2017 AIs, 2018 Six Nations and the start of the 2018 AIs. After the New Zealand loss in November 2018 Hartley was benched though.

Also worth noting that at the start of the 2018 AIs England moved from having Hartley as captain and Farrell as vice to naming them as co-captains on the team sheets. Then Farrell as skipper when Hartley got benched for the final two AIs. Hartley got injured soon after and didn't get another cap.

Hartley was dropped through choice whilst still fit though.

[Scott1]

I guess we will have to because I also disagree about Sexton as most of his success came running system plays under Schmidt and once those got worked out after 2019 him and Ireland where pretty dire.

Team were transitioning ,they peaked and then came down to Earth. It happens ,they are rebuilding nicely now and against Japan threw more offloads in that game than they did in the whole of the 6 nations and looked great at times today v NZ too,both with Sexton at 10. That’s 3/5 against NZ now ,that’s success in itself

Sexton isn't 3 from 5 against NZ.

Sexton against NZ
Won 3
Lost 9
Drawn 1

Farrell against NZ
Won 3
Lost 5
Drawn 1

Nope,I said Ireland have won 3 out of their last 5 v NZ but nice try

[Scott1]

Also, if IRB WPOTY recognition is significant it's worth noting that Farrell has been nominated 3 times.

Winning>nominated

[Big Dai]

Whatever the argument is on Farrell for me it's not about whether he was or is a good player, it's about will he be a good player 2 to 3 years from now.

Better solutions to many positions may be available and there's a need to try those solutions, preferably in position, as we move forward.

.....coat being reached for.

[Scott1]

Whatever the argument is on Farrell for me it's not about whether he was or is a good player, it's about will he be a good player 2 to 3 years from now.

Better solutions to many positions may be available and there's a need to try those solutions, preferably in position, as we move forward.

.....coat being reached for.

The trouble is nothing is being tried! I believe he's been on the bench only twice in the whole of Eddie's reign if he's been available. Could be wrong but it's close to that and for me he's not that good to demand a place in the team week in week out. We've never tried Ford,Manu,Slade which is ridiculous while we have persevered at times with F,F,S which has been shocking, makes no sense at all!

[kk20gb30]

Ireland three from the last five against New Zealand - a pretty good sequence at least fear factor should be no more.

[Big Dai]

Whatever the argument is on Farrell for me it's not about whether he was or is a good player, it's about will he be a good player 2 to 3 years from now.

Better solutions to many positions may be available and there's a need to try those solutions, preferably in position, as we move forward.

.....coat being reached for.

The trouble is nothing is being tried! I believe he's been on the bench only twice in the whole of Eddie's reign if he's been available. Could be wrong but it's close to that and for me he's not that good to demand a place in the team week in week out. We've never tried Ford,Manu,Slade which is ridiculous while we have persevered at times with F,F,S which has been shocking, makes no sense at all!

We agree!

[mol2]

Also, if IRB WPOTY recognition is significant it's worth noting that Farrell has been nominated 3 times.

Not likely on his form over the past couple of years!

He was a good player, but the game has moved on and England need to pick a team to win against the top teams. For me that can’t include Farrell at centre. Bench fly half capable of covering centre.
But is he good enough to prevent the likes of Smith and Ford starting at fly half? No.

As for inside centre, only in Eddie Jones’ parallel universe could he keep Manu out of a centre berth!

At his best he was a candidate for world player of the year, but every player reaches a peak and declines and Jones struggles to see this.

[Scott1]

If Jones is gonna persist with S and F I would go (if all fit and available)
Genge
George
Sinckler
Itoje
Hill
Lawes
Underhill
Curry
Youngs
Smith
May
Farrell
Manu
Radwan
Steward

Marler,Blamire,Stuart,Ewels, Dombrandt, Simmonds, Quirke,Slade

This is the game for a 6/2 split. If it wasn't SA I would go 5/3 split and leave Ewels out with Lawes covering lock. Thoughts? Have I missed anyone? Malins,Furbank,Atkinson,Mitchell to be considered

[wigworth]

Georgia are giving a pretty decent go of this so far against France.

[Soggypitch]

If Jones is gonna persist with S and F I would go (if all fit and available)
Genge
George
Sinckler
Itoje
Hill
Lawes
Underhill
Curry
Youngs
Smith
May
Farrell
Manu
Radwan
Steward

Marler,Blamire,Stuart,Ewels, Dombrandt, Simmonds, Quirke,Slade

This is the game for a 6/2 split. If it wasn't SA I would go 5/3 split and leave Ewels out with Lawes covering lock. Thoughts? Have I missed anyone? Malins,Furbank,Atkinson,Mitchell to be considered

There's no point saying assuming everyone is fit and available when Genge can't be. He has to isolate for 10 days from Thursday so no hope. Marler on the other hand will be available to train on Thursday or Friday I think, also presumably he can train alone to keep fit and sharp in the meantime?
Against the Boks we need our best scrummagers so I think Eddie will pick big Joe even if he's not been able to train with the squad for most of the week.

I'd also play Curry at 7, Dombrandt at 8 and put Underhill on the bench. Malins for Radwan as well, just think he's more versatile and probably a better defender.

[Scott1]

If Jones is gonna persist with S and F I would go (if all fit and available)
Genge
George
Sinckler
Itoje
Hill
Lawes
Underhill
Curry
Youngs
Smith
May
Farrell
Manu
Radwan
Steward

Marler,Blamire,Stuart,Ewels, Dombrandt, Simmonds, Quirke,Slade

This is the game for a 6/2 split. If it wasn't SA I would go 5/3 split and leave Ewels out with Lawes covering lock. Thoughts? Have I missed anyone? Malins,Furbank,Atkinson,Mitchell to be considered

There's no point saying assuming everyone is fit and available when Genge can't be. He has to isolate for 10 days from Thursday so no hope. Marler on the other hand will be available to train on Thursday or Friday I think, also presumably he can train alone to keep fit and sharp in the meantime?
Against the Boks we need our best scrummagers so I think Eddie will pick big Joe even if he's not been able to train with the squad for most of the week.

I'd also play Curry at 7, Dombrandt at 8 and put Underhill on the bench. Malins for Radwan as well, just think he's more versatile and probably a better defender.

Oh I don't know,Genge mightve been scrummaging against his car like Cole was
Underhill is absolutely nailed on for me against the Boks mate

[Scott1]

So unlikeable Biggar,he's a top player though shame about his antics. As for Cuthbert, I wouldn't even have him in our PRC side,Wales struggling for wingers that badly?!

[Scott1]

Could be red here! Yep definitely, that's a shocker! Ref went to give a yellow,well done TMO for rightly changing his mind. Idiot,spoiled a good game