Leicester vs Saracens

[TigerBoy1880]

Does this international rule apply to Lavanini, Kalamafoni or Veainu or is it just England players?

Not sure. I don’t know whether it’s an IRB ruling or the RFU.

[Tiglon]

Viljoen was doing most of the kicking from hands for pens right?

Maybe he hasn't fully adjusted to the lower sea level compared to compared to Bloemfontein which is where I believe he did most of his in game kicking at till he was signed by Western Province?

Maybe, but that would be a weak excuse. The difference is no secret and he's been over here long enough to have experimented in training and fully understand how much adjustment is needed.

Unless he and the coaching team hadn't thought about this at all.

Either way, not really good enough in an elite environment. Or what should be an elite environment...

[BFG]

Viljoen was doing most of the kicking from hands for pens right?

Maybe he hasn't fully adjusted to the lower sea level compared to compared to Bloemfontein which is where I believe he did most of his in game kicking at till he was signed by Western Province?

That's the funniest thing I've read on here in a long time.
He is new, can't find Oval Park and the air is too thick in Leicester.

[RagingBull]

Viljoen was doing most of the kicking from hands for pens right?

Maybe he hasn't fully adjusted to the lower sea level compared to compared to Bloemfontein which is where I believe he did most of his in game kicking at till he was signed by Western Province?

Maybe, but that would be a weak excuse. The difference is no secret and he's been over here long enough to have experimented in training and fully understand how much adjustment is needed.

Unless he and the coaching team hadn't thought about this at all.

Either way, not really good enough in an elite environment. Or what should be an elite environment...

Oh 100% not good enough.
But he does have a big boot.
Needs to learn to use it properly.

[Scuttle]

I will say at the outset that I am from the happy Clapper end of the spectrum and, irrespective of what I say next, like most of us I suspect, I will always support the team and try to not be negative. However I do now have a little worry creeping into my usual optimism and which puts in doubt the expected return from my tenner for Tigers to win the Premiership. I had hoped the new recruits, a good pre-season and a balanced showing in the PRC would signify green shoots of recovery this season, but I think it may be a longer haul than that. On reflection I think the PRC Chiefs game was against a much weaker Chiefs side than yesterday's Sarries side; I recognised many more names in the latter as regular 1st choice squad picks. I think there is some improvement on last year but maybe the bar has been raised by all teams and we are still where we were relatively speaking. I think the internationals returning will help but, if we are honest, whilst I am sure they helped last season they only helped us finish 11th, and we will have them for less time this season. Whatever we do this season will be more or less with the squad we had out yesterday. This might sound negative but isn't meant to be, but I can only speak personally when I say I am having to shift my expectations and hopes for this season and be more realistic about what we achieve. Gloucester next week will be tough and I think I saw GM quoted as saying so after yesterday's game so my readjusted hopes do not include a win in that game. I think the real test of where the team is at will be the following week at London Irish. Moving back to the Happy Clapper, sport is a funny thing, a couple of wins and confidence can come back. Let's hope it does.

[sapajo]

To be honest, I'm not sure how that result can be a surprise to anyone. Saracens line up looked much stronger, especially when you consider not only the individual quality of the players but also how settled they are as a team. Those guys all know each other and know how they're going to play.

Tigers though looked pretty awful as a backline, despite some nice moments from Holmes. Forwards looked better than last season but still not exactly brilliant overall.

Will the internationals make the difference? Probably not given they can only play a third of the season. Hopefully enough to avoid bottom place.

The problem is, as mentioned before, the biggest difference between tigers and saracens is how settled and consistent they are. Saracens gradually evolve their squad each season whereas tigers rip it up and start again once a year.

The wasps model of bringing in new superstars every year clearly hasn't worked, so that isn't the way to go. The only way I can see out of this mess is for tigers to build some consistency in playing staff and go back to basics with gameplan, then try to evolve slowly. If that means being around the foot of the table for a few more years then maybe that's what we need to accept. Perhaps our biggest problem is that we aim too high too quickly. So what if tigers used to be the best? That's entirely irrelevant now and if we finish 10th this season it is progress, whether we like it or not.

Said it many many times, employ a world class DOR and then we will back to the top. Northampton, Glos and Bristol have been transformed in the same period of time that Tigers have employed inferior head coaches /DOR's to drive us to the bottom. There are no excuses the board thought and still think employing Ex Tigers is the road to salvation when in fact it continues to be the road to oblivion.

[TTRITH]

Said it many many times, employ a world class DOR and then we will back to the top. Northampton, Glos and Bristol have been transformed in the same period of time that Tigers have employed inferior head coaches /DOR's to drive us to the bottom. There are no excuses the board thought and still think employing Ex Tigers is the road to salvation when in fact it continues to be the road to oblivion.

I agree in prinicipal, but feel we should head to Sam Vesty on our knees to bring him into the coaching set up. (Not as DoR mind!)

[JP14]

Viljoen was doing most of the kicking from hands for pens right?

Maybe he hasn't fully adjusted to the lower sea level compared to compared to Bloemfontein which is where I believe he did most of his in game kicking at till he was signed by Western Province?

That’s clutching at straws.

[JP14]

Towards the end there were glimpses, Worth was unlucky as Maitland flat out kneed him before he could even touch the ball and Gigena made a half-break, a bit poor from Liebenberg in his finish, the scrum half didn't even put too much pressure on the ball.

Tigers tinted glasses there, Maitland and Worth both competed for the ball in the air. Worth has been poor both games this season. Why we haven’t been playing Holmes at fullback with more attacking wingers I don’t know. Just smacks of a negative gameplan from the get go, especially at home just isn’t good enough.

Worth is better in the air than Holmes is in my view, as for tiger tinted spectacles? Well I perhaps but then I again I was wearing contacts .

[G.K]

Viljoen was doing most of the kicking from hands for pens right?

Maybe he hasn't fully adjusted to the lower sea level compared to compared to Bloemfontein which is where I believe he did most of his in game kicking at till he was signed by Western Province?

So what the hell was he doing during pre-season then? It should only take a decent kicker 20 minutes of practice to re-calibrate. Sorry but for me he looks like just another journeyman from the SH.

[kend]

To be honest, I'm not sure how that result can be a surprise to anyone. Saracens line up looked much stronger, especially when you consider not only the individual quality of the players but also how settled they are as a team. Those guys all know each other and know how they're going to play.

Indeed, and it enables them to deal with the loss of their internationals better than Tigers. Also Tigers have new signings working their way into the game at the point the side are rebuilding. It must be considerably easier to slot into a settled side with confidence in their game.

There were positive signs from yesterdays match; the set piece went pretty well (so there is a platform); Tigers put some phases of play together (without really looking like breaking Sarries defence, but they aren't the only side in the Prem to struggle with that!); quite a few of the issues arose from individual errors (IMHO Viljoen was trying too hard with the kicks to touch!).

They were in the game until the 76 minute. The decisive score came from a decent competition for the ball in the air and a good bounce for Earl to collect.

It will be difficult to judge how this season will go until the England contingent return and are reintegrated.

[RagingBull]

Towards the end there were glimpses, Worth was unlucky as Maitland flat out kneed him before he could even touch the ball and Gigena made a half-break, a bit poor from Liebenberg in his finish, the scrum half didn't even put too much pressure on the ball.

Tigers tinted glasses there, Maitland and Worth both competed for the ball in the air. Worth has been poor both games this season. Why we haven’t been playing Holmes at fullback with more attacking wingers I don’t know. Just smacks of a negative gameplan from the get go, especially at home just isn’t good enough.

Worth is better in the air than Holmes is in my view, as for tiger tinted spectacles? Well I perhaps but then I again I was wearing contacts .

Don't agree with Worth being better in the air than Holmes TBH.
He's on par at best. at least with Holmes he can cover more ground on the whole.
I like Worth but do think he gets exposed somewhat at 15, he seems to have the ability to beat the first man at times but he lacks the pace that Holmes and Veainu have of making ground after that first miss. Would rather see him at 12/13 ATM.


Really I would like to see McPhillips back from Doncaster especially if Eastmond is out.

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

Viljoen was doing most of the kicking from hands for pens right?

Maybe he hasn't fully adjusted to the lower sea level compared to compared to Bloemfontein which is where I believe he did most of his in game kicking at till he was signed by Western Province?

So what the hell was he doing during pre-season then? It should only take a decent kicker 20 minutes of practice to re-calibrate. Sorry but for me he looks like just another journeyman from the SH.

But it was his first game at WR.

[RagingBull]

Reffell 14 tackles 0 missed.
Good showing by the young 7 considering he played about 50 mins.


Didn't get much chance to offer something in attack.

But still a bright spark

[johnthegriff]

Totally agree re Reffell, defiitely a fine prospect and well worth his place in the squad. Could I point out that signings that have joined us on the understanding that they are understudying Ford, Tuilagi etc are unlikely to be as good as our first choices, not sure that that makes them journeymen but naturally they will not be international stars. The team we put out should have been good enough to beat Worcester and probably Saracens,they didn't and I am sure the analysts will be trying to identify the reasons for the losses, they have to find theanswers quickly, preferably before Saturday.