Howard to mentor Murphy

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Flash
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Re: Howard to mentor Murphy

Post by Flash » Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:16 pm

We are where we are now. We need some stability and start showing some loyalty again to improve squad morale. So keeping GM with a mentor seems the best option. The issue is really the appointment of MOC but there's not a lot we can do about that now.

h's dad
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Re: Howard to mentor Murphy

Post by h's dad » Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:17 pm

Redstripeman wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:26 am
h's dad wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:20 pm
sapajo wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:19 pm


Agreed it was incredibly short-sighted to appoint a totally inexperienced head coach.
I think some posters need to look up the definition of shortsighted in relation to business decisions. If anything the appointment of GM was clearly a long term potential opportunity and the provision of a mentor made complete sense (should have been done earlier). I'm not saying the board should have been this longsighted, but shortsighted it ain't.
... it was the cheapest option.!!
You really are giving the Bod too much credit. There was no real thought went into this appointment of GM and to compound their error, they confirmed him as Head Coach when it seemed he couldn't buy a win.
Loyalty is all very well but choosing the believe the Board had the best interest of the club at heart is just wishful thinking.
I can think of cheaper options, even if somewhat ridiculous, and I seem to recall that some posters have proposed them.
Not sure where I said I agreed with the BoD or that they were right.
Surely confirmation as head coach was showing longer term faith in a period of adversity? Again, I would not have concurred with the board on this.
Surely most of us believe that the BoD have 'the best interest of the club at heart' even if we don't agree with their decision making? Two very different things and to imply that the board are actually deliberately working against the club (and that is the implication of your statement) is something I find bizarre.
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sapajo
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Re: Howard to mentor Murphy

Post by sapajo » Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:55 pm

Cagey Tiger wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:51 pm
sapajo wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:32 pm
BFG wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:59 am


Please explain why you think it is short sighted?
The way I see it is that changing coach after coach over the past few years didn't particularly work very well, and contributed to last seasons relegation struggle, and so retaining some continuity and sticking with a coach already in place and now providing that coach with support by way of a mentor is a different approach.
The support is in the form of Pat Howard, an successful experienced and trusted former coach, I assume this is to try and avoid a repeat of the Mauger situation where a clash occurred with the coach already in place.
They could get a brand new coach but it doesn't always work out, it can clash with an entire squad and it can also just simply flop, there are previous examples everywhere.
Probably only two clubs at present in the Premiership who can lay real claims to success in coaching appointments and they are Sarries and Exeter.
It all seems pretty clear to me.
No 1 we would not have finished 11th last season
No2 we would not have to pay for a mentor
No3 the appointment remains a total gamble
Still banging that tired old drum I see. It happened and isn't going to change in the medium term. Any (realistic) ideas on things Tigers might do differently going forward, rather than harking on about the past?

BTW all your 3 points above could be applied, including relegation, no matter who was appointed.
Yep and I shall continue to do so.
Without hope we are nothing, keep the faith, a Tiger for eternity

Redstripeman
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Re: Howard to mentor Murphy

Post by Redstripeman » Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:40 pm

h's dad wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:17 pm
Redstripeman wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:26 am
h's dad wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:20 pm

I think some posters need to look up the definition of shortsighted in relation to business decisions. If anything the appointment of GM was clearly a long term potential opportunity and the provision of a mentor made complete sense (should have been done earlier). I'm not saying the board should have been this longsighted, but shortsighted it ain't.
... it was the cheapest option.!!
You really are giving the Bod too much credit. There was no real thought went into this appointment of GM and to compound their error, they confirmed him as Head Coach when it seemed he couldn't buy a win.
Loyalty is all very well but choosing the believe the Board had the best interest of the club at heart is just wishful thinking.
I can think of cheaper options, even if somewhat ridiculous, and I seem to recall that some posters have proposed them.
Not sure where I said I agreed with the BoD or that they were right.
Surely confirmation as head coach was showing longer term faith in a period of adversity? Again, I would not have concurred with the board on this.
]Surely most of us believe that the BoD have 'the best interest of the club at heart even if we don't agree with their decision making? Two very different things and to imply that the board are actually deliberately working against the club (and that is the implication of your statement) is something I find bizarre.
... would be interesting to know what the cheaper option would have been.
They have put the club up for sale, in effect taking the money and running.
Would this sale had come about had we been relegated.
I do not begrudge Tom or anyone who has invested in the club and retirement at their age is a gentler pace, but from the acquisition of MoC to the appointment of GM, absolutely no attempt at putting the club first.

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Re: Howard to mentor Murphy

Post by CitizenSmiff » Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:49 pm

I've been at Glastonbury so missed this new development, wish I's stayed away a few more days. Murphy is a sub-standard coach and Howard is hardly at the cutting edge of modern rugby development, we're going to finish bottom half of the table again and watch loads of rubbish performances in the process.

RagingBull
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Re: Howard to mentor Murphy

Post by RagingBull » Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:08 pm

I certainly wished that.


(Sorry couldn't resist).

Cagey Tiger
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Re: Howard to mentor Murphy

Post by Cagey Tiger » Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:28 pm

Redstripeman wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:59 pm
Cagey Tiger wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:51 pm
sapajo wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:32 pm


No 1 we would not have finished 11th last season
No2 we would not have to pay for a mentor
No3 the appointment remains a total gamble
Still banging that tired old drum I see. It happened and isn't going to change in the medium term. Any (realistic) ideas on things Tigers might do differently going forward, rather than harking on about the past?

BTW all your 3 points above could be applied, including relegation, no matter who was appointed.
...not too sure you can say that!!!
Employing Baxter or McCall as head coach would have brought us a better season even if that was not a top 4 finish. The late addition of Mike Ford is perhaps the main reason for Tigers avoiding relegation as the slide we were on was gathering momentum.
The players gained (in their own words) "clarity" as to the requirements needed to put a game plan into action and a way to carry that plan out.
To an extent every new appointment is a gamble, but the appropriate coach reduces the odds of failure.
Employing Baxter or McCall as head coach would have brought us a better season
. Come on, I wasn't really talking Fantasy Rugby :smt003,

although the 3 points would apply to Baxter and McCall. I just included relegation as a general possibility, dependant on who might have been appointed instead.

Agree with the last two paragraphs, I think the debate on here is who would be appropriate.

h's dad
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Re: Howard to mentor Murphy

Post by h's dad » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:40 am

Redstripeman wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:40 pm
h's dad wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:17 pm
Redstripeman wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:26 am


... it was the cheapest option.!!
You really are giving the Bod too much credit. There was no real thought went into this appointment of GM and to compound their error, they confirmed him as Head Coach when it seemed he couldn't buy a win.
Loyalty is all very well but choosing the believe the Board had the best interest of the club at heart is just wishful thinking.
I can think of cheaper options, even if somewhat ridiculous, and I seem to recall that some posters have proposed them.
Not sure where I said I agreed with the BoD or that they were right.
Surely confirmation as head coach was showing longer term faith in a period of adversity? Again, I would not have concurred with the board on this.
]Surely most of us believe that the BoD have 'the best interest of the club at heart even if we don't agree with their decision making? Two very different things and to imply that the board are actually deliberately working against the club (and that is the implication of your statement) is something I find bizarre.
... would be interesting to know what the cheaper option would have been.
They have put the club up for sale, in effect taking the money and running.
Would this sale had come about had we been relegated.
I do not begrudge Tom or anyone who has invested in the club and retirement at their age is a gentler pace, but from the acquisition of MoC to the appointment of GM, absolutely no attempt at putting the club first.
Can you really not see the contradictions in your post? It's not the BoD that I give too much credit, it's some of the posters on this forum. Sheesh.
I am neither clever enough to understand nor stupid enough to play this game

Dangerous4
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Re: Howard to mentor Murphy

Post by Dangerous4 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:20 pm

sapajo wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:32 pm
BFG wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:59 am
sapajo wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:19 pm


Agreed it was incredibly short-sighted to appoint a totally inexperienced head coach.
Please explain why you think it is short sighted?
The way I see it is that changing coach after coach over the past few years didn't particularly work very well, and contributed to last seasons relegation struggle, and so retaining some continuity and sticking with a coach already in place and now providing that coach with support by way of a mentor is a different approach.
The support is in the form of Pat Howard, an successful experienced and trusted former coach, I assume this is to try and avoid a repeat of the Mauger situation where a clash occurred with the coach already in place.
They could get a brand new coach but it doesn't always work out, it can clash with an entire squad and it can also just simply flop, there are previous examples everywhere.
Probably only two clubs at present in the Premiership who can lay real claims to success in coaching appointments and they are Sarries and Exeter.
It all seems pretty clear to me.
No 1 we would not have finished 11th last season
No2 we would not have to pay for a mentor
No3 the appointment remains a total gamble
Absolutely correct. GM is, and never was the right choice for the role, which is validated by his needing a mentor to guide him. We needed someone who truly had quality credentials.

With regard to the new players, I am very pleased, and just hope the coaches are up to it. Hang on though, why don't we find them mentors? Not Boris though, he is our one true coach.

johnthegriff
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Re: Howard to mentor Murphy

Post by johnthegriff » Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:26 pm

When Bob Dwyer went and Deano was appointed there were some who even after 7 trophies in five years thought he had just been lucky. Some would have him back even though his team had a worse season than Tigers. When Cocker took over and lifted the club up the Premiership, won several trophies there were people saying throughout that he was not the man for the job. The introduction of Aarron Mauger did not work for what ever reason and bringing in Matt O'Connor was obviously a mistake some stated that in advance others like me were prepared to give him a chance, we were wrong! The result of those decisions was a squad of player who MOC admitted were not fit enough at the start of the season some were not good enough and the balance of the squad was wrong, Geordie got dropped in it at the deep end, we will never know if someone else could have done better with the resources and the injury list he had to cope with. We are recruiting players that address many of the problems we fans have mentioned and we appear to be getting greater strength in depth. We have a young coach who in about five years of coaching experience has worked with Cockerill, Mauger and O'Connor and now with the benefit of advice from Ford & Howard. He also has the experience gained by being coached by many big names during his playing career. A player told me this week that the team are training harder at this stage than ever before so at least it is unlikely that we will be told after the first match that the team need another three weeks to achieve match fitness as we were last season.

h's dad
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Re: Howard to mentor Murphy

Post by h's dad » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:35 pm

Hands up everybody who thinks they know everything and thinks they could not benefit from 'mentoring' in certain areas. If your hand is up you are wrong and you are an idiot.

Hands up everybody who thinks anybody anywhere knows everything and could not benefit from 'mentoring' in certain areas. If your hand is up you are wrong and you are an idiot.

Mentoring, properly used, can be beneficial in all areas and at all levels. How stupid do you have to be to be unable to grasp this?
I am neither clever enough to understand nor stupid enough to play this game

Dangerous4
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Re: Howard to mentor Murphy

Post by Dangerous4 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:45 pm

h's dad wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:35 pm
Hands up everybody who thinks they know everything and thinks they could not benefit from 'mentoring' in certain areas. If your hand is up you are wrong and you are an idiot.

Hands up everybody who thinks anybody anywhere knows everything and could not benefit from 'mentoring' in certain areas. If your hand is up you are wrong and you are an idiot.

Mentoring, properly used, can be beneficial in all areas and at all levels. How stupid do you have to be to be unable to grasp this?
:smt005 :smt005 Methinks you may need a mentor to help you with posting. :smt045

h's dad
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Re: Howard to mentor Murphy

Post by h's dad » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:05 pm

Dangerous4 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:45 pm
h's dad wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:35 pm
Hands up everybody who thinks they know everything and thinks they could not benefit from 'mentoring' in certain areas. If your hand is up you are wrong and you are an idiot.

Hands up everybody who thinks anybody anywhere knows everything and could not benefit from 'mentoring' in certain areas. If your hand is up you are wrong and you are an idiot.

Mentoring, properly used, can be beneficial in all areas and at all levels. How stupid do you have to be to be unable to grasp this?
:smt005 :smt005 Methinks you may need a mentor to help you with posting. :smt045
I would prefer the phrase 'would benefit from' rather than 'need' but apart from that my natural modesty and humility coupled with my self awareness compels me to agree with you. How about your good self?
I am neither clever enough to understand nor stupid enough to play this game

BFG
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Re: Howard to mentor Murphy

Post by BFG » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:32 pm

Dangerous4 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:20 pm
sapajo wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:32 pm
BFG wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:59 am


Please explain why you think it is short sighted?
The way I see it is that changing coach after coach over the past few years didn't particularly work very well, and contributed to last seasons relegation struggle, and so retaining some continuity and sticking with a coach already in place and now providing that coach with support by way of a mentor is a different approach.
The support is in the form of Pat Howard, an successful experienced and trusted former coach, I assume this is to try and avoid a repeat of the Mauger situation where a clash occurred with the coach already in place.
They could get a brand new coach but it doesn't always work out, it can clash with an entire squad and it can also just simply flop, there are previous examples everywhere.
Probably only two clubs at present in the Premiership who can lay real claims to success in coaching appointments and they are Sarries and Exeter.
It all seems pretty clear to me.
No 1 we would not have finished 11th last season
No2 we would not have to pay for a mentor
No3 the appointment remains a total gamble
Absolutely correct. GM is, and never was the right choice for the role, which is validated by his needing a mentor to guide him. We needed someone who truly had quality credentials.

With regard to the new players, I am very pleased, and just hope the coaches are up to it. Hang on though, why don't we find them mentors? Not Boris though, he is our one true coach.
Actually young and new players are usually paired up with an experienced player as a mentor, so why not a coach!
I don't see what the big beef is about it, other than a reason to moan just for the sake of it!

CitizenSmiff
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Re: Howard to mentor Murphy

Post by CitizenSmiff » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:47 pm

BFG wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:32 pm
Dangerous4 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:20 pm
sapajo wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:32 pm


No 1 we would not have finished 11th last season
No2 we would not have to pay for a mentor
No3 the appointment remains a total gamble
Absolutely correct. GM is, and never was the right choice for the role, which is validated by his needing a mentor to guide him. We needed someone who truly had quality credentials.

With regard to the new players, I am very pleased, and just hope the coaches are up to it. Hang on though, why don't we find them mentors? Not Boris though, he is our one true coach.
Actually young and new players are usually paired up with an experienced player as a mentor, so why not a coach!
I don't see what the big beef is about it, other than a reason to moan just for the sake of it!
We're pulling a cart with one donkey and one long-retired racehorse and expecting it to take us places. Sure it'll work, but it won't be fast or pretty. This pointless union only exists because the club is scared of being labelled the Chelsea of rugby, the difference being that at least Chelsea hired the best available.

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