Bring on Sarries! - Teams Up

[fortysix]

YBY was way off yesterday, courtesy of a misfiring back 5 probably.....
No doubt he will up his game for England, but rumour in North Norfolk is he wont be with us next season..
We will have to wait and see

[sapajo]

YBY was way off yesterday, courtesy of a misfiring back 5 probably.....
No doubt he will up his game for England, but rumour in North Norfolk is he wont be with us next season..
We will have to wait and see

Strange, heard the same rumour last season, he is off to Bath to play with his best mate George Ford.

[ourla]

I am feeling a sense of real frustration at the moment on many different levels. It worries me that so many Tigers fans think that Saracens are simply too good to beat at the moment or that we don't have the finances to compete. I'm sorry but I don't buy either of those.

I reckon we'll dig out victories in our next 3 Prem matches given the form of the teams in opposition and that we are at home for the two harder ones - though I am not brimming with confidence or counting any chickens. I just have this feeling when it comes to Wasps or Sarries again that lack of belief will creep back in.

At times I reckon nearly everyone in the squad has shown some great form. Unfortunately, it comes and goes with the wind. Everybody talks about how it took Saracens a few years to get where they are but they were starting from a different position to where we are.

[mol2]

Finding it hard to concur with some that it was a good performance. Maybe better than last few visits to AP and Glasgow, but they were in control from the starts and we never looked like winning.

The negatives: starting forwards didn't front up. Not to reignite the No 8 debate but we desperately need a ball carrier. I also feel Cole and Marcos (great servants) are on the wane: certainly no front row dominance or decent carriers from either.

Or were we expecting two class props to do all the scummaging - A lightweight hooker, second rows without much grunt and lightweight back row players might just be a factor. We saw what Cole did to the Aussie pack in the summer.

[ourla]

Just to illustrate what I am talking about it in terms of frustration. 5th minute Sarries fling a wild pass. Betham skillfully gathers and bursts through. Without a hand being laid on him he ships a long pass back to Thompstone. He could have carried on running bisecting the two struggling defenders as we've seen him do before or he could have seen and used the guy on his shoulder. Thompstone knocks on, we engage early in the scrum and Sarries are off the hook. That sets the tone for me. Sarries were as there for the taking as they have been for a while with Itoje, Kruise and others out. But we never looked like we believed we could take them.

[chewbacca]

Just to illustrate what I am talking about it in terms of frustration. 5th minute Sarries fling a wild pass. Betham skillfully gathers and bursts through. Without a hand being laid on him he ships a long pass back to Thompstone. He could have carried on running bisecting the two struggling defenders as we've seen him do before or he could have seen and used the guy on his shoulder. Thompstone knocks on, we engage early in the scrum and Sarries are off the hook. That sets the tone for me. Sarries were as there for the taking as they have been for a while with Itoje, Kruise and others out. But we never looked like we believed we could take them.

The question is why there is a lack of belief. Is it experience based on previous results or is it due to uncertainty in strategy and tactics? Either way the use of sports psychology as documented by sarries may be helpful to us along with eradicating any uncertainty.

[ourla]

Just to illustrate what I am talking about it in terms of frustration. 5th minute Sarries fling a wild pass. Betham skillfully gathers and bursts through. Without a hand being laid on him he ships a long pass back to Thompstone. He could have carried on running bisecting the two struggling defenders as we've seen him do before or he could have seen and used the guy on his shoulder. Thompstone knocks on, we engage early in the scrum and Sarries are off the hook. That sets the tone for me. Sarries were as there for the taking as they have been for a while with Itoje, Kruise and others out. But we never looked like we believed we could take them.

The question is why there is a lack of belief. Is it experience based on previous results or is it due to uncertainty in strategy and tactics? Either way the use of sports psychology as documented by sarries may be helpful to us along with eradicating any uncertainty.

I think there are several related strands. I think we've actually started to find the right balance between playing percentages and taking risks. But in the process of doing so and the mistakes that inevitably occur along the way, it's made us a little nervous. That in itself leads to individual errors, which then dents confidence. Add in to that mixed defensive frailty which seemed to me to creep in over time (no hopefully on the mend) and you can see where the inconsistency comes from.

I still struggle to get the Saints home game last year out of my head. When we were blistering in the first half taking a 21-0 lead but late in that half conceding two soft penalties allowing Saints to get a try, allowing them a lifeline into the game. We have developed a bit of an ability to shoot ourselves in the foot.

Tantalisingly, we are still pretty good and especially at home seem to be able to beat anybody.

Hence all the frustration.

Not sure if psychologist is needed or it has to come from the coaches. Maybe a bit of both.

[h's dad]

Slow ball from Ben Youngs? What?

I have looked at the highlights and on most rucks I actually counted about 2 to 3 seconds from when the ruck was formed to when Youngs passed the ball. If you think that's slow ball then there's no helping you. Also, you can't have quick ball all the time, sometimes you do need to slow it down a bit. I think Youngs had a good game.

Not so much slow from ruck formed as sloooow from picking the ball up to getting it away. This habit is clear to just about everybody I know. Wiser heads than mine have suggested it is a deliberate tactic to draw the defence, if so I think it has become a little too predictable but perhaps it only sticks in my mind when I see it. He is England's number one for a reason.

[kend]

Had a family event on Saturday so watched the game this AM (free morning!).

From the comments on here expectations were low, but actually, for the most part Tigers played a decent game with some good phases of play (you may need to watch it without Dallaglio's exceeding negative commentary!). Caused problems for the Sarries defence, got in behind their line quite regularly. Could easily have scored a couple more than they did. Sarries rode their luck with Barnes (how he could call the ball backwards when Goode dropped it just before half time is beyond me) and they could have had a second yellow for killing the ball near their line. Goode's accidental knock on in contact prevented a likely score. And I still think that Sarries game requires the referees to take a laissez faire view of the outside defence and the offside line.

I don't understand the views on Ben Youngs - he made a few mistakes, but that is the consequence of the pressure Sarries apply (actually and mentally, you rush your game even when you don't need to). Sam Harrison had similar issues. The kicking game was a bit hit and miss, but the same point about pressure applies.

Just to illustrate what I am talking about it in terms of frustration. 5th minute Sarries fling a wild pass. Betham skillfully gathers and bursts through. Without a hand being laid on him he ships a long pass back to Thompstone. He could have carried on running bisecting the two struggling defenders as we've seen him do before or he could have seen and used the guy on his shoulder.

Well yes, but if he carries or gives the short pass, it was likely to end in contact and the ball on the ground, so you lose the advantage the break has given you. Taking the option of the long pass carried more risk, but if Thompstone takes it, and Betham follows his pass, there is a good chance you avoid contact and score. Right call IMHO. He's got a rather limited amount of time to assess the options.

Line out defence is a big issue though. Two big carries from holes at the front and back of the line out. That's what I would be working on this week!

[h's dad]

Just to illustrate what I am talking about it in terms of frustration. 5th minute Sarries fling a wild pass. Betham skillfully gathers and bursts through. Without a hand being laid on him he ships a long pass back to Thompstone. He could have carried on running bisecting the two struggling defenders as we've seen him do before or he could have seen and used the guy on his shoulder. Thompstone knocks on, we engage early in the scrum and Sarries are off the hook. That sets the tone for me. Sarries were as there for the taking as they have been for a while with Itoje, Kruise and others out. But we never looked like we believed we could take them.

The question is why there is a lack of belief. Is it experience based on previous results or is it due to uncertainty in strategy and tactics? Either way the use of sports psychology as documented by sarries may be helpful to us along with eradicating any uncertainty.

Spot on. The biggest gap at AP on Saturday seemed to be the relative self belief. I wonder if Cockers is too old school to appreciate the benefits of sports psychology (despite his yoga lessons). He certainly wouldn't be alone.

[Tigerbeat]

Sports psychologists are part of the backroom team at Tigers

[h's dad]

Sports psychologists are part of the backroom team at Tigers

Sorry Tigerbeat but I can't see that it is given that much emphasis:

Nothing here:
http://www.leicestertigers.com/team/sports_medicine.php

This isn't enough:
http://www.themartineffect.co.uk/success-stories/

Do you have more info?

[Tigerbeat]

I asked the question to one of the Coaches as to whether Sports Psychologists were part of the Tigers set up and given a positive answer.

[ourla]

Well yes, but if he carries or gives the short pass, it was likely to end in contact and the ball on the ground, so you lose the advantage the break has given you. Taking the option of the long pass carried more risk, but if Thompstone takes it, and Betham follows his pass, there is a good chance you avoid contact and score. Right call IMHO. He's got a rather limited amount of time to assess the options.

Watch again. Look at where the defenders are. Betham is :censored: quick. I fancied his chances of making the try line. The alternative was to draw the defenders to him and make the shorter pass to (I think) Roberts who was trailing him. Thompstone had better coverage than I did even if the pass had gone to hand. If he'd held on and got tackled worst case scenario is we would have been recycling centre field, five metres from their try line. That is my view anyhow. And it just seemed to me to be indicative of a lack of belief or mental strength which seems to pop up at regular intervals across the park.

I'm not trying to be negative, I just want the team to perform to their potential.

[ourla]

Sports psychologists are part of the backroom team at Tigers

Yes, I'd be mighty surprised if they weren't. I think they need to up their game though!

In all honesty, I'm not sure what the answer is. Perhaps Manu's return might help. Yes, I know....