Breaking news: Tigers and Hansen part company.

[sapajo]

by

Hansens had 16 months to implement his system how much more time does he need?

And I agree we don't need to get rid of cockers as the scrum works, not mauger as the attack is getting better, I would seriously consider a different defence coach though

My understanding us that he was all that was available at short notice after Blake's suspension. Mauger had worked with him previously and he also doubles up as a scrum half coach.

I'd give him until the end of the season but without dramatic improvements I'd let his contract elapse and bring in someone else next summer. As Kend says most of the tries are coming from individual errors in the system. The players need to adapt quicker.

For the record Hansen was appointed before Blake's suspension and was a precondition to Mauger's appointment.

[tigercaspian]

I can't remember who the defence coach is but in 5 games we have shipped 126 points as opposed to 49 by Sarries and except for Bristol nobody has a worse points against record. I'm sorry but this is not acceptable to lose to a team of Sale's stature for the third time within 2 seasons is to say the least very poor.
Mathew Tait no longer has the form or stamina to operate in the first 15 and probably not even on the bench. Tigers are making too many basic mistakes and too many handling errors and that is the coaches job to rectify, Harry Thacker must be given his chance at hooker not only for his abilities in the scrum but also in the loose. Neither McGuigan or Youngs are performing in that department. Nothing less than a thumping win against Worcester next week will be acceptable. If Cockers and Mauger can't sort the problem out quickly then they should go and go now.

Don't worry about Matt Tait.......I understand that after reading another thread on this forum he's offered himself to McDonalds as a security advisor

[Roly]

I can't remember who the defence coach is but in 5 games we have shipped 126 points as opposed to 49 by Sarries and except for Bristol nobody has a worse points against record. I'm sorry but this is not acceptable to lose to a team of Sale's stature for the third time within 2 seasons is to say the least very poor.
Mathew Tait no longer has the form or stamina to operate in the first 15 and probably not even on the bench. Tigers are making too many basic mistakes and too many handling errors and that is the coaches job to rectify, Harry Thacker must be given his chance at hooker not only for his abilities in the scrum but also in the loose. Neither McGuigan or Youngs are performing in that department. Nothing less than a thumping win against Worcester next week will be acceptable. If Cockers and Mauger can't sort the problem out quickly then they should go and go now.

Don't worry about Matt Tait.......I understand that after reading another thread on this forum he's offered himself to McDonalds as a security advisor

It ought to be Mothercare.

[Roly]

Noddy, would you like to tell me the last team to beat Sale at home and when it was?

What has that got to do with anything?

You're clutching at straws.

Yes, the AJ Bell is a tough place to go and win. However, to be within 1 point (and a bonus point win) against 14 men and to lose is inexcusable. Two Sale tries were literally walked in.

Sale didn't win this match, Tigers lost it - and they didn't need to. This was a 4 point loss and it'll come back to bite them.

[JackFlashJonny]

Noddy, would you like to tell me the last team to beat Sale at home and when it was?

What has that got to do with anything?

You're clutching at straws.

Yes, the AJ Bell is a tough place to go and win. However, to be within 1 point (and a bonus point win) against 14 men and to lose is inexcusable. Two Sale tries were literally walked in.

Sale didn't win this match, Tigers lost it - and they didn't need to. This was a 4 point loss and it'll come back to bite them.

I can't believe no-one has pointed out the last team to win at Sale was Gloucester on the 16th September 2016...great point ellis

[Roly]

Noddy, would you like to tell me the last team to beat Sale at home and when it was?

What has that got to do with anything?

You're clutching at straws.

Yes, the AJ Bell is a tough place to go and win. However, to be within 1 point (and a bonus point win) against 14 men and to lose is inexcusable. Two Sale tries were literally walked in.

Sale didn't win this match, Tigers lost it - and they didn't need to. This was a 4 point loss and it'll come back to bite them.

I can't believe no-one has pointed out the last team to win at Sale was Gloucester on the 16th September 2016...great point ellis

The all conquering Glaws....

[johnthegriff]

Most people seem to be making judgements based on tv highlights, radio commentary or just seeing the result. I was there and feel qualified to offer an opinion. The players are committed and really are putting in the effort and they do care. We are losing the ball too often in attack and consequently being caught out in defence. We were penalised too often for holding on to he ball following a tackle, I have to say the ref was very quick on this although he was consistent also penalising the opposition who seemed to be caught less often. Our forwards I felt had the edge over Sale but we were punished for "not straight" at the lineout. It is the second week on the trot that we have conceded try's from a lineout ploy. In the backs there were times I felt that we were too lateral maybe this will be resolved when Toomua is in the team.
The first try against was opportunist but we were caught out in a similar move in a previous match. I am not sure who is at fault, I assume the back row should be covering that move, something there needs looking at; I am confident our coaches will be working on it.
It should not be forgotten that Sale are a good top half of the table team, they are well coached and results show they are particularly hard to beat at home, to lose with a bonus point is no disgrace. However, I went there thinking we would win and we should have done, I think we are very close to being a very good team with a good squad and I still believe this will be a trophy winning season.

[Noddy555]

Pete Betham's performance on Saturday was outstanding, if there is some way we can wriggle out of the contract with Tuilagi I suggest that the bulk of his money be transferred to Betham, after all if Manu is worth £450,000 per season Betham must be worth twice that at least. We must secure his lomg term retention with the Tigers/

[fortysix]

We have the most disjointed back division in the Premiership with the majority of players consistently rearranged out of position because of the non appearance of Manu
We could have signed Olivier--but we didnt
We have an appalling defensive record
Hansen has not earnt his money so far ----he had better start pretty damn quick
And apart from Matt Smith we dont have one top quality centre available, Betham in reality being a winger, as is Veaninu

[voice of the crumbie]

Most people seem to be making judgements based on tv highlights, radio commentary or just seeing the result. I was there and feel qualified to offer an opinion. The players are committed and really are putting in the effort and they do care. We are losing the ball too often in attack and consequently being caught out in defence. We were penalised too often for holding on to he ball following a tackle, I have to say the ref was very quick on this although he was consistent also penalising the opposition who seemed to be caught less often. Our forwards I felt had the edge over Sale but we were punished for "not straight" at the lineout. It is the second week on the trot that we have conceded try's from a lineout ploy. In the backs there were times I felt that we were too lateral maybe this will be resolved when Toomua is in the team.
The first try against was opportunist but we were caught out in a similar move in a previous match. I am not sure who is at fault, I assume the back row should be covering that move, something there needs looking at; I am confident our coaches will be working on it.
It should not be forgotten that Sale are a good top half of the table team, they are well coached and results show they are particularly hard to beat at home, to lose with a bonus point is no disgrace. However, I went there thinking we would win and we should have done, I think we are very close to being a very good team with a good squad and I still believe this will be a trophy winning season.

Thanks John. I was limited to listening on the radio. It's good to get a view from someone who was there and who offers a balanced perspective.

One thing in the commentary was interesting regarding the theme of this post. I can't remember whether it was Bleddyn or Steve who made it but whoever it was made the point that Tigers are using a different defensive formation for different aspects of the game. Reading between the lines there was an implication that at times the players confuse the 2 systems hence mistakes like having no "guard" at the breakdown etc. Can anyone shed any light on this? It might explain some of what we can describe as "system errors" as opposed to individual errors like getting turned over, throwing speculative passes which are picked off by the opposition etc.

[Iain]

Pete Betham's performance on Saturday was outstanding, if there is some way we can wriggle out of the contract with Tuilagi I suggest that the bulk of his money be transferred to Betham, after all if Manu is worth £450,000 per season Betham must be worth twice that at least. We must secure his lomg term retention with the Tigers/

I mean where do you even start with this...?

[Roly]

Pete Betham's performance on Saturday was outstanding, if there is some way we can wriggle out of the contract with Tuilagi I suggest that the bulk of his money be transferred to Betham, after all if Manu is worth £450,000 per season Betham must be worth twice that at least. We must secure his lomg term retention with the Tigers/

I mean where do you even start with this...?

Well, I'd suggest that if Tigers could somehow wriggle out of the very expensive contract with the injury prone Manu Tuilagi, then it wouldn't be a bad thing. Other than that, the bit about giving the money to Betham doesn't make sense.

[Iain]

Well let us manage expectations. Manu's contract will not be terminated early unless the medics find that he is no longer able to play professional rugby. At his young age I highly doubt that will be the conclusion just yet, particularly since there is no suggestion as such from the club that it is anything other than something that will require a month or two. Should he be unable to recover properly then I'm quite sure the detail of the contract will have this covered. To suggest at this stage that we should "wriggle out" of his contract just smacks of being rather disrespectful and insulting.

The consensus up to this week has been that Betham has made a ropey start to the season. One good performance and the suggestion is that Betham is twice the player Manu is and should be given a salary that rivals Dan Carter's.

There are few things that annoy me more about the modern rugby fan than relentless hyperbole - as if there are no grey areas between world class and useless.

[Roly]

To suggest at this stage that we should "wriggle out" of his contract just smacks of being rather disrespectful and insulting.

The consensus up to this week has been that Betham has made a ropey start to the season. One good performance and the suggestion is that Betham is twice the player Manu is and should be given a salary that rivals Dan Carter's.

There are few things that annoy me more about the modern rugby fan than relentless hyperbole - as if there are no grey areas between world class and useless.

Tuilagi is starting to find form as a 'sick note'. As a player he should be an asset, no more, no less. Presently he's a liability - but he is under contract so I agree, it would be wrong to terminate it early.

Talking of liabilities, it had been Betham up until Saturday's game, so I'm not entirely sure why he's now worth a top salary.

[Iain]

Betham's a very good player who was on poor form the first few games of the season.

Anyway - defence. Since this was what the thread was about.

I don't think any of us would argue there isn't a problem with the defence. I HOPE Toomua's influence and a more settled midfield will help with this, but I suspect it isn't that simple. But we can't keep shipping thirty plus points a game regularly - that is poor.