Tigers v Bath

[Cagey Tiger]

While, as in the financial world, "past results are no guarantee of future performance", in sport they do give a rough idea of how games are likely to pan out. Let's just say that Tiger's results (and performances) are unlikely to lead to over confidence being a problem

[ourla]

They've been papering over the cracks for years. What's worse is that some swallow it year after year too and call it transition.

1) Timeline please... how many years are we talking?

2) So when the DoR has talked about the need to progress and improve - and recruited a variety of coaches and players to do that you don't feel that is no more than "papering over the cracks".

Let's face it Roly you lost in faith in Cockerill a long time ago and won't let up until he's gone. You don't actually want us to do well under him do you?

You're actually right. I do not have any faith in him or his coaching staff and it seems plenty agree.

I cannot see past another season struggling to attain the play-offs domestically and a QF in Europe at best. But I would like to be wrong. I would like him to prove me wrong.

Stagnation.

But I answer me the the question how long do you believe they have been "papering over the cracks" and when did you "lose faith" in Cockerill?

Genuinely interested.

[Roly]

I would say the last three years at least.

Maybe even more. I think the rot had started in 2011 at least. Tigers had a truly inspiring end to that season taking ~20 points from their last 5 games to finish in 2nd place (could have been 3rd - I forget). They lost to Quins in the final. But, it had been a truly average season up till that point. They won the title in 2013 (which believe me, I was properly happy about) - but therein is the problem or me. They won a title but that's given some people reason to be happy with subsequent prior/post under achievement (debateable).

I genuinely believe that 2013 was an anomaly, that RC got lucky - and that prior to this point RC had reached his ceiling with regards to ability as DoR.

It's almost as if the team are succeeding to play well enough to give people hope despite him, not because of him.

[h's dad]

I would say the last three years at least.

Maybe even more. I think the rot had started in 2011 at least. Tigers had a truly inspiring end to that season taking ~20 points from their last 5 games to finish in 2nd place (could have been 3rd - I forget). They lost to Quins in the final. But, it had been a truly average season up till that point. They won the title in 2013 (which believe me, I was properly happy about) - but therein is the problem or me. They won a title but that's given some people reason to be happy with subsequent prior/post under achievement (debateable).

I genuinely believe that 2013 was an anomaly, that RC got lucky - and that prior to this point RC had reached his ceiling with regards to ability as DoR.

It's almost as if the team are succeeding to play well enough to give people hope despite him, not because of him.

So when the team plays well it's despite Cockers. And when they play badly it's because of Cockers. Thanks for explaining that

[ourla]

I would say the last three years at least.

Maybe even more. I think the rot had started in 2011 at least. Tigers had a truly inspiring end to that season taking ~20 points from their last 5 games to finish in 2nd place (could have been 3rd - I forget). They lost to Quins in the final. But, it had been a truly average season up till that point. They won the title in 2013 (which believe me, I was properly happy about) - but therein is the problem or me. They won a title but that's given some people reason to be happy with subsequent prior/post under achievement (debateable).

I genuinely believe that 2013 was an anomaly, that RC got lucky - and that prior to this point RC had reached his ceiling with regards to ability as DoR.

It's almost as if the team are succeeding to play well enough to give people hope despite him, not because of him.

It's a view!

2011/12 we finished 2nd, one point behind Quins. We had a cracking season, achieving BP wins 6 games on the bounce starting at the end of Feb. To call that an average season makes no sense in my view.

In 2012/13 we finished 2nd again but this time won the play offs. To claim Cockerill got lucky, many years after he was in the job is bizarre.

The play offs by their nature allow teams to have an "OK" regular season and still win the title. But in reality finishing top two affords a significant advantage. And that has been our downfall in the last three years. Whether that failure can be directly attributed to Cockerill I am not convinced of. Clearly you feel differently.

[Roly]

I would say the last three years at least.

Maybe even more. I think the rot had started in 2011 at least. Tigers had a truly inspiring end to that season taking ~20 points from their last 5 games to finish in 2nd place (could have been 3rd - I forget). They lost to Quins in the final. But, it had been a truly average season up till that point. They won the title in 2013 (which believe me, I was properly happy about) - but therein is the problem or me. They won a title but that's given some people reason to be happy with subsequent prior/post under achievement (debateable).

I genuinely believe that 2013 was an anomaly, that RC got lucky - and that prior to this point RC had reached his ceiling with regards to ability as DoR.

It's almost as if the team are succeeding to play well enough to give people hope despite him, not because of him.

So when the team plays well it's despite Cockers. And when they play badly it's because of Cockers. Thanks for explaining that

Its actually not that difficult to understand really. But its your prerogative to disagree with everything I say based on the principle that it differs from your opinion.

[thebearisstilldeano]

All I can say is with Blackadder in charge we are going to need a cunning plan. Anyway pride cometh before the fall.

Rhubarb! It's a pride of lions, not Tigers, The collective noun for Tigers is a streak or an ambush? A little worried about streak thing...............I'll hope for the ambush.

A bank of Saracens?

[Roly]

[/quote]
2011/12 we finished 2nd, one point behind Quins. We had a cracking season, achieving BP wins 6 games on the bounce starting at the end of Feb. To call that an average season makes no sense in my view.[/quote]

Well it does make sense if you accept that for three quarters of the season, Tigers were distinctly average.

[/quote]
In 2012/13 we finished 2nd again but this time won the play offs. To claim Cockerill got lucky, many years after he was in the job is bizarre.[/quote]

Again, not really bizarre. Teams can have anomalous seasons, in my opinion, this was one of them.

[/quote]
The play offs by their nature allow teams to have an "OK" regular season and still win the title. But in reality finishing top two affords a significant advantage. And that has been our downfall in the last three years. Whether that failure can be directly attributed to Cockerill I am not convinced of. Clearly you feel differently.[/quote]

This remains to be seen, but yes, I do feel differently.

[jgriffin]

It's now officially the Roly repeat thread, indeed the Roly Forum. I look forward to the day Roly is DOR.
Seriously, is there now any breathing space on here?

I will be there on Sunday, critical as I am (a Nay-Sayer BTW not a Doom-Monger), and live in hope that what I see as AM/SH coaching issues (not Cockers)are resolving. Regardless, Mrs G will say a cheery hello to Bananaman after the match, a true gent after the last visit!

[ourla]

Well it does make sense if you accept that for three quarters of the season, Tigers were distinctly average.

But they weren't average for three quarters of the season as I factually pointed out to you. If you want to question the facts go ahead. Getting 6 BP's in a row is not average by any standards and we still won matches before and after that run. Basically you making false statements to try and back up your argument. 2011/12 was a great season - the stats show it.

Teams can have anomalous seasons, in my opinion, this was one of them.

They can do yes. Quins had one, Saints had a couple, Bath had one. But you can't sensibly argue Tigers season of 2012/13 was a freak occurrence. Again the statistical facts are plain to see. You are desperately and sadly trying make a case against Cockerill. If you want him chopped at least have the decency to admit he did a good job in those two seasons.

[chris11]

I'm sorry, but I think I must have eaten something dodgy last week and fallen into a coma. I obviously realise that we were hammered at WR by Bath, but I can't seem to find a match report online. Can someone forward me a link?

It's clear from this forum that once again Cockers made a complete hash of things - surely it's time for him to go....

[strawclearer]

I'm sorry, but I think I must have eaten something dodgy last week and fallen into a coma. I obviously realise that we were hammered at WR by Bath, but I can't seem to find a match report online. Can someone forward me a link?

It's clear from this forum that once again Cockers made a complete hash of things - surely it's time for him to go....

Gosh - that was bad luck! Here's the match report...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/30635058

[ourla]

I'm sorry, but I think I must have eaten something dodgy last week and fallen into a coma. I obviously realise that we were hammered at WR by Bath, but I can't seem to find a match report online. Can someone forward me a link?

It's clear from this forum that once again Cockers made a complete hash of things - surely it's time for him to go....

Gosh - that was bad luck! Here's the match report...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/30635058

That was an anomalous result - Cockers was holiday that week.

[wormus]

Referee for Sunday v Bath is Matt Carley with Gareth Copsey and Oh no where is my white stick Tim Wigglesworth on the touch.

[Spicer]

This could go either way, if we don't improve our performance then we will lose however. I really want to see two actual centers playing in the position for once. Smith and Roberts are probably the only fit ones, as Manu will probably be "a couple of weeks away" from fitness for the next few months.