What if the Lions ?

[rocktop51]

The home nations have now had a Southern Hemisphere experience (apart from Scotland in Japan).

So if the Lions were being picked today who would make the squad and starting 15

Discuss

[tigerburnie]

Definitely not Gatland or any of the Welsh coaches, or Scots or Irish for that matter. I wasn't happy with Eddie Jones appointment, but fair play to him, it's a one horse race for the Lions job now.

[tigercaspian]

Pay attention at the back...........!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/ ... lions-job/

[rocktop51]

I wasn't referring to the management but the players.

[Roly]

Definitely not Gatland or any of the Welsh coaches, or Scots or Irish for that matter. I wasn't happy with Eddie Jones appointment, but fair play to him, it's a one horse race for the Lions job now.

Apart from the fact that the Lions is an anachronistic throwback to the halcyon days of amateur rugby, is a player breaker in a seasons already congested enough and is now purely a money making scheme for the organisers and sponsors, it should be consigned to the history from whence it came..... Eddie Jones has already ruled himself out hasn't he?

[rocktop51]

Definitely not Gatland or any of the Welsh coaches, or Scots or Irish for that matter. I wasn't happy with Eddie Jones appointment, but fair play to him, it's a one horse race for the Lions job now.

Apart from the fact that the Lions is an anachronistic throwback to the halcyon days of amateur rugby, is a player breaker in a seasons already congested enough and is now purely a money making scheme for the organisers and sponsors, it should be consigned to the history from whence it came..... Eddie Jones has already ruled himself out hasn't he?

Thank you for such a considered response. I assume then that you dont watch the games or support them in any way. Whether EJ has ruled himself isn't the point. I was merely asking for a Home Nations team based on SH performances. Is it also fair to say you also disapprove of the summer tours?

[L Smith]

Definitely not Gatland or any of the Welsh coaches, or Scots or Irish for that matter. I wasn't happy with Eddie Jones appointment, but fair play to him, it's a one horse race for the Lions job now.

Apart from the fact that the Lions is an anachronistic throwback to the halcyon days of amateur rugby, is a player breaker in a seasons already congested enough and is now purely a money making scheme for the organisers and sponsors, it should be consigned to the history from whence it came..... Eddie Jones has already ruled himself out hasn't he?

It pains me beyond words to say that I agree with the fabric of your argument... although it could benefit from a soupçon of pragmatism

[kpj tiger]

For a touring party I'd guess

Loose Heads:
Vunipola
McGrath
Marler/Healey

Hookers:
Dylan Hartley
Jamie George
Ken Owens

Tight Heads:
WP Nel
Samson Lee
Dan Cole

Locks
Maro Itoje
Ian Henderson/Devin Toner
George Kruis
Alun Wyn Jones

Backrow
CJ Stander
Sam Warburton
Billy Vunipola
Sean O'Brian
Toby Faletau

Half Backs
Connor Murray
Ben Youngs
Owen Farrel
Johnny Sexton
Greg Laidlaw/George Ford

Centers
Manu Tuilagi
Jonathan Joseph
Jonathan Davies
Robbie Henshaw
Mark Bennett/Stuart McCloskey

Back 3
Mike Brown
Stuart Hogg
Anthony Watson
George North
Liam Williams

[ourla]

Definitely not Gatland or any of the Welsh coaches, or Scots or Irish for that matter. I wasn't happy with Eddie Jones appointment, but fair play to him, it's a one horse race for the Lions job now.

Apart from the fact that the Lions is an anachronistic throwback to the halcyon days of amateur rugby, is a player breaker in a seasons already congested enough and is now purely a money making scheme for the organisers and sponsors, it should be consigned to the history from whence it came..... Eddie Jones has already ruled himself out hasn't he?

Thank you for such a considered response. I assume then that you dont watch the games or support them in any way. Whether EJ has ruled himself isn't the point. I was merely asking for a Home Nations team based on SH performances. Is it also fair to say you also disapprove of the summer tours?

As a rule Roly just disapproves.

[Roly]

As a rule Roly just disapproves.

Dear Ourla

I feel you should be aware that an assailant unknown with a superiority complex has hacked your account and is replying to the perfectly valid opinion of other users.

Thankyou.

[Roly]

Definitely not Gatland or any of the Welsh coaches, or Scots or Irish for that matter. I wasn't happy with Eddie Jones appointment, but fair play to him, it's a one horse race for the Lions job now.

Apart from the fact that the Lions is an anachronistic throwback to the halcyon days of amateur rugby, is a player breaker in a seasons already congested enough and is now purely a money making scheme for the organisers and sponsors, it should be consigned to the history from whence it came..... Eddie Jones has already ruled himself out hasn't he?

Thank you for such a considered response. I assume then that you dont watch the games or support them in any way. Whether EJ has ruled himself isn't the point. I was merely asking for a Home Nations team based on SH performances. Is it also fair to say you also disapprove of the summer tours?

You're right, I don't watch the games or support them in any way.

As for the Summer tours (and Autumn internationals if you like), you're being disingenuous. The Summer tours are played by home nations and teams are homogenous. It is the only opportunity that the home nations get to play against top opposition outside of a world cup. Ergo, they are demonstrably developmental.

The lions isn't. Whether you like it or not, rugby union is professional, it is a business, and it's players are assets - either to their clubs, or their country. The calendar is already crowded enough on a yearly basis without the potential to tire and injure a player in a (more often than not) series whupping in the SH. And don't get me started on the false bon homme of the 'fans'.

[ourla]

Whether you like it or not, rugby union is professional, it is a business

In that case you may want to read this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyu ... ussed.html

The negotiations are expected to cover all aspects of future tours, including increasing the value of television rights, ticket sales and corporate hospitality, with the emphasis on “growing the cake” so that each stakeholder receives a substantially greater financial return to reflect the ever-increasing interest in the Lions. There is expectation that a new agreement could be in place by 2015.

Under the current agreement, which expires after the tour of New Zealand in 2017, the 10-game series against Warren Gatland’s Lions squad is expected to generate at least £40million for the Australian Rugby Union, wiping out a £12.2million debt run up over the past two years.

The four Home Unions are expected to share a profit largely generated by sponsorship deals of £6million on top of £50,000 compensation for each player in the 37-man squad.

It is understood there is a desire among all parties to restructure commercial arrangements to maximise future revenues and value to raise the profile of the game in both the host country and across the world. Ticketing and corporate hospitality are key areas up for reform to increase the collective yield as the Lions do not receive any hospitality income under the existing agreement.

More than 40,000 supporters are expected to travel from the UK and Ireland for this summer’s tour and sponsorship deals alone have been the main source of income for the Lions to cover the tour cost of £14million. More than 400,000 supporters in total are expected to watch the 10 games, which includes a tour opener against Barbarians in Hong Kong, which is expected to be worth £10.4million alone.

[ourla]

It's going to bail out the Kiwis next year..
http://www.skysports.com/rugby-union/ne ... cash-boost

[Roly]

Whether you like it or not, rugby union is professional, it is a business

In that case you may want to read this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyu ... ussed.html

The negotiations are expected to cover all aspects of future tours, including increasing the value of television rights, ticket sales and corporate hospitality, with the emphasis on “growing the cake” so that each stakeholder receives a substantially greater financial return to reflect the ever-increasing interest in the Lions. There is expectation that a new agreement could be in place by 2015.

Under the current agreement, which expires after the tour of New Zealand in 2017, the 10-game series against Warren Gatland’s Lions squad is expected to generate at least £40million for the Australian Rugby Union, wiping out a £12.2million debt run up over the past two years.

The four Home Unions are expected to share a profit largely generated by sponsorship deals of £6million on top of £50,000 compensation for each player in the 37-man squad.

It is understood there is a desire among all parties to restructure commercial arrangements to maximise future revenues and value to raise the profile of the game in both the host country and across the world. Ticketing and corporate hospitality are key areas up for reform to increase the collective yield as the Lions do not receive any hospitality income under the existing agreement.

More than 40,000 supporters are expected to travel from the UK and Ireland for this summer’s tour and sponsorship deals alone have been the main source of income for the Lions to cover the tour cost of £14million. More than 400,000 supporters in total are expected to watch the 10 games, which includes a tour opener against Barbarians in Hong Kong, which is expected to be worth £10.4million alone.

So its not purely just about revenue then.... oh, hang on....

Growing interest my backside. In any case, my point was more that the Lions isn't necessary (unless you're short of cash of course) and that the business aspect I described is more linked to player welfare/availability (those players being assets) than revenue generation.

[ourla]

So its not purely just about revenue then.... oh, hang on....

It's not purely about revenue no. Lions tours have been going on since 1888 and the popularity and success have fluctuated like many things during that long history. Currently it appears to be very popular with players and fans alike.

Growing interest my backside.

Not sure how you measure "interest" but as someone who doesn't "watch the games or support them in any way." perhaps you are not the best person to judge?

In any case, my point was more that the Lions isn't necessary and that the business aspect I described is more linked to player welfare/availability (those players being assets) than revenue generation.

I see the argument that it's not necessary to the development of the individual national teams or necessarily good for player welfare though it could be argued that is good for player and coach development. I don't see the argument that it isn't necessary or beneficial in terms of the business.

Player welfare is inevitably at some loggerheads with the professional and business nature of the sport, across the board. But I would suggest if you were looking at what is commercially important the Lions tour wouldn't be the first thing to be cut in order to preserve player welfare and "the assets".