Tigers v Gloucester Rugby - Teams up

[ellis9]

The reasons Healey and Kay didn't think it was too bad is because when they played, that was perfectly legal.

[sapajo]

Another classic example of two ex Tigers facile comments in order to appear non partisan whilst commentating on Tigers

[jgriffin]

The reasons Healey and Kay didn't think it was too bad is because when they played, that was perfectly legal.

Ayerza's leg was impeding access to the ball and he was on the ground. For most players and for most of rugby's history, 'on the ground, out of the game' and you are part of the pitch. The reversed penalty was a fair call.

[westwinds31]

Kvesic very annoying, some decent turnovers but is off his feet more often than not and JP Doyle didn't see it until the second half. Very good at the shaking of the head after every decision against him as well !!

[wellstiger]

Interesting watching MR Cockers post match interview on BT.
Obviously passionate response and emotional re 20 mins of ineffective "drifting defence".
Three things struck me and please advise me if I'm wrong.
1) Too quick to defend S.H defensive coach and blame players.

2) Maintains season still alive and hopes of winning Prem.

3) Hints that this season was not even in the minds of coaching staff and effectively written off before the start, but building for next season was the criteria

Or was I reading too much into it.

If I'm right in my interpretation and players have a similar understanding, this may at least explain some aspects of who will be with the club next season, who will be first team and who will be assigned "other duties"

[Tigerbeat]

Interesting watching MR Cockers post match interview on BT.
Obviously passionate response and emotional re 20 mins of ineffective "drifting defence".
Three things struck me and please advise me if I'm wrong.
1) Too quick to defend S.H defensive coach and blame players.
The players are the ones who have failed to defend the play and this would have been coached into them. Concentration needs to be switched on for the whol game

2) Maintains season still alive and hopes of winning Prem.
He is right. We are still in the mix and it is possible that Tigers could win the Premiership. I accept that other teams are playing better than Tigers but would not expect anything other than what he said

3) Hints that this season was not even in the minds of coaching staff and effectively written off before the start, but building for next season was the criteria

Or was I reading too much into it.

If I'm right in my interpretation and players have a similar understanding, this may at least explain some aspects of who will be with the club next season, who will be first team and who will be assigned "other duties"

[ellis9]

I think you're reading too much in to it. Also, he is correct to blame the players if they don't do what the coaches have asked. I don't understand this "Don't blame the players" culture and "It is always the coaches fault". If the coaches have asked the players to do things a certain way and they don't, then they should be blamed.

If you go to work and your manager asks you to do something a particular way but you choose to do it differently which leads to a different outcome or makes things harder for you and your team, then you'd be spoken to about it, well if you have a good manager you would be.

[LittleBigG]

I think it's harsh for people to criticise Youngs alone. How about Owen Williams? I thought he was poor today and I haven't seen anyone moan about him.

There were plenty of us on the terrace moaning about Williams. By far his worst game in a Tigers shirt imo! At least two or three rubbish loopy passes and that utterly aimless kick 2 mins before the end immediately spring to mind.

My irritation with Youngs yesterday (not explicitly to do with him, more a generic scrum half gripe) is not that he picks it and takes a couple of steps - that is fine as he quite often finds a gap - it's when he just looks at the ball sitting at the back of the ruck and does nothing about it whilst allowing the opposition defence to re-organize themselves!

If we want to play high tempo rugby we need it to spend as little time in the ruck as possible, whether that is passed straight out or picked up and ran with.

1) Too quick to defend S.H defensive coach and blame players.

I refuse to believe that any coach, even schoolboy level, would have requested that the team play like we did 20 mins before half time. The only logical conclusion to draw from that then is that it is the players were at fault.

[wellstiger]

I think you're reading too much in to it. Also, he is correct to blame the players if they don't do what the coaches have asked. I don't understand this "Don't blame the players" culture and "It is always the coaches fault". If the coaches have asked the players to do things a certain way and they don't, then they should be blamed.

If you go to work and your manager asks you to do something a particular way but you choose to do it differently which leads to a different outcome or makes things harder for you and your team, then you'd be spoken to about it, well if you have a good manager you would be.

Quite agree.
I wasn't making the comment about who was to blame, obviously some quarters have or why would Mr C. be quick to defend. That was the observation I was trying to understand.

[wellstiger]

3) Hints that this season was not even in the minds of coaching staff and effectively written off before the start, but building for next season was the criteria

Or was I reading too much into it.

If I'm right in my interpretation and players have a similar understanding, this may at least explain some aspects of who will be with the club next season, who will be first team and who will be assigned "other duties" [/quote][/quote]

Please do not think I am critical of Mr Cockers. I am neither apportioning blame on coaching staff nor players. They are my team.
He is a TIGER THROUGH AND THROUGH, I am trying to understand the reasoning for some of the UNTIGERISH season.

Yes we are still in the mix - fortunes may turn we may get a Tigerish 80+mins per game

[Big Dai]

The reasons Healey and Kay didn't think it was too bad is because when they played, that was perfectly legal.

My view, for what it's worth, is that rucking applies force in a backwards motion with the feet, as if you were hooking a ball. Stamping down on an opponent has always been just that, a stamp, and is illegal.

Anyway Healey can talk all he likes. Remember Kevin Putt of the Not Nots? Pot, Kettle, Black.

[The Boy Dave]

My irritation with Youngs yesterday (not explicitly to do with him, more a generic scrum half gripe) is not that he picks it and takes a couple of steps - that is fine as he quite often finds a gap - it's when he just looks at the ball sitting at the back of the ruck and does nothing about it whilst allowing the opposition defence to re-organize themselves!

If we want to play high tempo rugby we need it to spend as little time in the ruck as possible, whether that is passed straight out or picked up and ran with.

BY wants the ball on a silver platter at every ruck, no oppostion interference (like Ayerza in the stamping incident) and blockers each side, the trouble is his team aren't great at all that and can often cause their own mess on their own ball going off their feet constantly.
Sam just gets on with it and then also gets wrongly picked on for other reasons that have cause and effect.
Maybe if refs did their job correctly and penalised players who try and slow ball down illegally instead of giving constant advice as the players infringe then the game would naturally be quicker as the laws are designed to create, and scrum halfs could do their job properly?

[strawclearer]

The reasons Healey and Kay didn't think it was too bad is because when they played, that was perfectly legal.

My view, for what it's worth, is that rucking applies force in a backwards motion with the feet, as if you were hooking a ball. Stamping down on an opponent has always been just that, a stamp, and is illegal.

Anyway Healey can talk all he likes. Remember Kevin Putt of the Not Nots? Pot, Kettle, Black.

Back in nineteen-hundred-and-frozen-to-death - well before Healey and Kay's days - I had the great good fortune as a schoolboy to be coached for a season by Dave Rollitt (ex Bristol and England flanker).

He laid a boy on the ground, placed a ball down and showed how to ruck. The ball was swiftly captured and the boy stood up without a mark on him. He then stamped hard on a branch laid on the ground. The earth shook - the branch disintegrated. He asked for volunteers to help him demonstrate a stamp on a real leg. There were none. He explained what would happen to any boy in his charge found guilty of stamping.

We got the point.

If an opponent is doing something illegal then, as a player, you rely on the ref to deal with him. Stamping on his leg can never be the answer - not at schoolboy level nor in the Premiership.

[baz1664]

The reasons Healey and Kay didn't think it was too bad is because when they played, that was perfectly legal.

My view, for what it's worth, is that rucking applies force in a backwards motion with the feet, as if you were hooking a ball. Stamping down on an opponent has always been just that, a stamp, and is illegal.

Anyway Healey can talk all he likes. Remember Kevin Putt of the Not Nots? Pot, Kettle, Black.

Back in nineteen-hundred-and-frozen-to-death - well before Healey and Kay's days - I had the great good fortune as a schoolboy to be coached for a season by Dave Rollitt (ex Bristol and England flanker).

He lay a boy on the ground, placed a ball down and showed how to ruck. The ball was swiftly captured and the boy stood up without a mark on him. He then stamped hard on a branch laid on the ground. The earth shook - the branch disintegrated. He asked for volunteers to help him demonstrate a stamp on a real leg. There were none. He explained what would happen to any boy in his charge found guilty of stamping.

We got the point.

If an opponent is doing something illegal then, as a player, you rely on the ref to deal with him. Stamping on his leg can never be the answer - not at schoolboy level nor in the Premiership.

Spot on!!!

[jgriffin]

Alas for the Corinthian spirit, it never worked like that. Get in the way while on the ground, the consequences are yours was ever the case. Refs did intervene if it was gratuitous (even in Wales ), but a leg preventing quick release (as well as a hand later) was fair game.