Quins

[trendylfj]

I wont blame either Thacker or Balmain but I would say that Harry needs to learn the back row position more thoroughly and stick to one position (and so do the management). Frazer did not look to have much fire in him last night - yes - his opponent was boring in but I never saw him getting angry about it or saying anything to the ref. Marcus does and certainly tells the ref if things are not going right because his opponent is getting away with things.

I also agree that we should have brought on Crane and shifted Pearce to the flank rather than bring on Harry at that time.

[Noddy555]

Well what excuse have we this time, I think it was crass of Cockers not to start with his best available team and although Burns is not my favourite player he should have been on from the start instead of the young Oliver Bryant. He could have blooded Bryant next week against bottom club London Irish in stead of experimenting against a top team, I think Cockers is losing it.

[TigerCam]

The scrum problems do not revolve around Thacker, they are there whether he plays or not.

The question is what has happened to the conditioning or coaching? A pretty invincible unit is now no better than ordinary.

+1. IMO a major problem is the lack of pace to the breakdown area. Several times Quins were first to get to any spoils. There were many phases where the Tigers slowed their own ball down and allowed the Quins to challenge in numbers. The forward progression on own ball was slow, laboured and with no direction at times. Are the forwards fit enough to play with the pace and accuracy required? 3 games on the trot the Tigers have been shafted by opposition that appears to generate a higher rate of play?

[LittleBigG]

It started against Saracens and other teams appear to have done some analysis... surprise, surprise.

I thought that Quins (and Newcastle) were a bit too keen sometimes and got away with kicking it out of Sam's hands; I don't blame Doyle for not spotting it as it was just lost in the noise of every other ruck being hotly contested.

[mol2]

The scrum is clearly an issue and I'm not sure the fault entirely lays with Balmain. Whenever the ref stood on the Quin's tight head side we at least had parity. When he stood on our tight head side the scrum was unstable - some of that down to rolling in by their tight head to cope with Ayerza which messed up the scrum for which we got pinged unfairly.

Balmain was kept on for too long and clearly tired.

Not sure that Kitch offers a lot of grunt in the engine room at present so the impact of fast but low grunt flankers was apparent at scrum time.

Our scrum coaching, like our driving game is not at the level it needs to be.

Too much emphasis on the wide game without the hard yards up the middle to suck in the defensive line first.

[Cagey Tiger]

@RB If you can't see it by now it's pointless me trying to explain.

In other words, you haven't got a Scoobie to back up your assertion.

[h's dad]

@RB If you can't see it by now it's pointless me trying to explain.

In other words, you haven't got a Scoobie to back up your assertion.

If they weren't born in the LRI and contracted to Tigers before leaving they are journeymen. Hope that clears it up for you.

[Big Dai]

I think that in the current era it's easy to throw the term "journeyman" about. There seems to be an endless turn over and "recycling" of players out of one club and into another. It used to be Rowntree, Cockers, Garforth, Johnson, ..................and build from there. Players retired rather than left and replacements were fairly long term affairs, Corry, Moody, Murphy, there was a core of long standing playing staff who were around for years.

Now someone gets the ass ache about not being played enough, or gets replaced by the managers favourite and its "off to a new club I go". Tongue in cheek maybe, but this interminable round of signings and leavings is bound to raise questions about loyalty to the club or the wallet. Add to that short term injury cover signings and the odd short term big name (JDV and Taquiri) and the situation becomes very dynamic.

Getting any continuity in these situations must be difficult. It's not an excuse, but I think Tigers needed to build from some kind of consistent foundation. They are not being allowed to do this for one reason or another, but the selections are not helping by throwing other wild cards into the mix.

[jgriffin]

I think that in the current era it's easy to throw the term "journeyman" about. There seems to be an endless turn over and "recycling" of players out of one club and into another. It used to be Rowntree, Cockers, Garforth, Johnson, ..................and build from there. Players retired rather than left and replacements were fairly long term affairs, Corry, Moody, Murphy, there was a core of long standing playing staff who were around for years.

Now someone gets the ass ache about not being played enough, or gets replaced by the managers favourite and its "off to a new club I go". Tongue in cheek maybe, but this interminable round of signings and leavings is bound to raise questions about loyalty to the club or the wallet. Add to that short term injury cover signings and the odd short term big name (JDV and Taquiri) and the situation becomes very dynamic.

Getting any continuity in these situations must be difficult. It's not an excuse, but I think Tigers needed to build from some kind of consistent foundation. They are not being allowed to do this for one reason or another, but the selections are not helping by throwing other wild cards into the mix.

Think that doesn't help, but is not the whole story. On eissue is the constant pressure on people that haven't been brought up in Hard Knock School. The year George retired a forward said to me that Tigers were losing the generation who could win losing games and their replacements didn't have the fire in their bellies. Looks like he might have had something there to go with Dai's point as well as those that think we lack Tigerishness now. Goodey has it still BTW.

[Big Dai]

I think that in the current era it's easy to throw the term "journeyman" about. There seems to be an endless turn over and "recycling" of players out of one club and into another. It used to be Rowntree, Cockers, Garforth, Johnson, ..................and build from there. Players retired rather than left and replacements were fairly long term affairs, Corry, Moody, Murphy, there was a core of long standing playing staff who were around for years.

Now someone gets the ass ache about not being played enough, or gets replaced by the managers favourite and its "off to a new club I go". Tongue in cheek maybe, but this interminable round of signings and leavings is bound to raise questions about loyalty to the club or the wallet. Add to that short term injury cover signings and the odd short term big name (JDV and Taquiri) and the situation becomes very dynamic.

Getting any continuity in these situations must be difficult. It's not an excuse, but I think Tigers needed to build from some kind of consistent foundation. They are not being allowed to do this for one reason or another, but the selections are not helping by throwing other wild cards into the mix.

Think that doesn't help, but is not the whole story. On eissue is the constant pressure on people that haven't been brought up in Hard Knock School. The year George retired a forward said to me that Tigers were losing the generation who could win losing games and their replacements didn't have the fire in their bellies. Looks like he might have had something there to go with Dai's point as well as those that think we lack Tigerishness now. Goodey has it still BTW.

You're right about Goodey, what you lack in absolute ability you gain in "nous" (spelling?) The lack of tigerishness is what I meant by heart v wallet............in the amateur days you seemed to tough it out. In the professional era you look for a better deal. It's why I'm less happy in the current era. The merry go round needs to stop.

The type of management needs to change too, perhaps if you're used to managing a static situation you are less effective in a dynamic one?

[G.K]

@RB If you can't see it by now it's pointless me trying to explain.

In other words, you haven't got a Scoobie to back up your assertion.

Not you again with more meaningless rubbish. Ok if you insist then I'll explain my view.

Over recent years the recruitment policy of Tigers has clearly changed. The focus now is on recruiting players, mainly from the Southern Hemisphere, who are either not of international standard or were but have now retired and often injured. Thus we end up with a team consisting largely of disparate players who have played in different leagues in different styles and who are here on two year contracts, to top up their pension pots. It's quite easy to identify who they were/are.

For me this approach is clearly not working. With Mauger joining and with the team having less injuries at the start of the season it looked like Tigers might have turned a corner but since Christmas it's evident that performances have been generally poor, even where we have scraped some narrow wins. Tigers are just not getting the basics right any longer, restarts are awful, both ours and theirs, we are giving away scrum penalty after scrum penalty, rucking and mauling is poor, there are too many turnovers. Also as someone mentioned look at the body language of many of the players.

I'd really recommend those that think otherwise watch the last 3 games again.

[drc_007]

I don't think they are journeymen just poorly coached at the moment.

[G.K]

I don't think they are journeymen just poorly coached at the moment.

You mean by Cockerill or Mauger or Blaze or all of them?

[Big Dai]

I don't think they are journeymen just poorly coached at the moment.

Owing to injuries, call ups and suspensions what we have on the park is a band of journeymen. Results and attitude show they are poorly coached.

[chewbacca]

We seemed to be a more cohesive unit in the early part of the season than of late. Could the early season team spirit have been unsettled by the intense interest in contract negotiations for some players and the public speculation as to the associated salary terms.