Embarrassing--- 3 penalty Tries ----we need new props !!

[G.K]

I think I'll go with the original theory - Tigers scrum has gone backwards recently (and also downwards and upwards).

[Iain]

The pitch definitely played a part. I walked across it after the game and it was very slippy. Saracens are used to these conditions on that pitch. Tigers aren't. It makes a big difference and it looked quite evident to me that we struggled with the conditions.

That's odd because I have walked on that pitch and it had plenty of grip, and feet were not giving way under the scrum.
The pitch is a good leveller IMO and made for competition, no slipping on purpose when under pressure to gain a reset scrum and so on, no way out.
Studs were mentioned on T.V several weeks ago and they reckoned the Sarries forwards wear their normal studs on their pitch as do on grass as they sink in under weight the same on the artificial surface, the benefit is it doesn't completely give way like grass.
Sounds like excuse's to me, accept Sarries are a very good team and deal with it!

Oh make no mistake. Saracens played superbly as they are a superb team. But the pitch is a completely unnatural one to play on. It is inevitable that they have experience of scrummaging and mauling on that pitch in those conditions that Tigers do, which obviously gives them an advantage. It's not THE reason we struggled but it is a big contributing factor.

Our pack hasn't suddenly become inept overnight.

[The Boy Dave]

Our pack hasn't suddenly become inept overnight.

Totally agree!
That was our pack but it was not the pack.
One man doesn't make a team but one man can break a team.

[Noddy555]

We don't need new props we just need the ones we have which include 5 internationals to play better. Hopefully the Sarries match was a one off,if not we'll have to contact the ABC Club to get them out of retirement.

[OliverS]

I too wondered about studs when watching the match again after returning from Allianz Park. I was surprised to see what Du Plessis had under his boots while he was getting medical attention in the first half - they somehow looked like wine corks and it was his ability to get into Thacker/Ayerza causing the biggest issue? I did also see our back row wearing the moulded plastic FG-type boots, unlike Saracens with smaller metal items. McCaffrey was slipping in at least one scrum I saw. The pitch is definitely an odd thing to walk on with its rubber crumb backfill - I wonder if the normally grippy surface gets quite slippery to studs when thoroughly wet?

I am sure this could only possibly be part of the problem.

[The Boy Dave]

McCaffrey was slipping in at least one scrum I saw

That tends to happen on the backrow when a scrum is pushed backwards.

[LE18]

Why will no one accept that our props suffered because we had a very light hooker? The pitch possibly helped to highlight this!

[ourla]

Why will no one accept that our props suffered because we had a very light hooker?

I am sure they would if it that were clearly true.

[G.K]

Why will no one accept that our props suffered because we had a very light hooker? The pitch possibly helped to highlight this!

Because there are those of us think that it wasn't all down to Thacker and the pitch.

[LE18]

Ok, I give up but I would really like to know what DC thought, obviously we will never know.

[Norfolk & Goode]

Ryan Jones's analysis on Rugby Tonight had it about right. It was a combination of poor technique from front row to back row. The split between LH and Thackers was one of the main issues, and that has nothing to do with the conditions. Overall we were inconsistent and naive, in particular to playing the ref in which Gill and Du Plessis were smarter. Coley doesn't help his case by constantly binding on the arm (illegal anyway), his oppos easily disrupted hi balance (playing the ref!) and made him look the guilty party.

[The Boy Dave]

Folk can analyse all they like and there may have been different little things that weren't quite right at each scrum but one thing was certain and that was that the domino effect started from pressure on our tiny hooker and the extra pressure on the props and then the rest from having a tiny hooker.
As hard as you try you will rarely get a perfect set scrum from an eight even at pro level.
There will always be slips here and there and so on and a scrum needs to be solid enough to cope with this.
Otherwise it's a coaching issue which I don't believe is so.

[fortysix]

What it boils down to is that it is very very doubtful that Harry will get any more game time in must win matches.
He is just too lightweight at the top level
Sad but true

[Hot_Charlie]

We'll probably find out RC's opinion at about 1200 tomorrow. It'll be interesting to see the make up of both the starting front row and the three on the bench.

[LE18]

It really looks to me as though he only has 2 hookers to pick from, and I expect the same 4 props, but with the usual first choice starting, ie Ayerza, Youngs and Cole.