Times Up!

[Roly]

I rest my case, the few successes aside this club has hit the skids with RC at the helm, he can't take them any further as DOR.

[Iain]

It's not as simple as removing Cockerill, but improvement needs to happen. For me, the biggest problem appears to be a coaching team that is too small. Cockerill is essentially acting as director of rugby, head coach and forwards coach all in one. Our backs are led by Geordan Murphy, who has too much responsibility for someone still learning their trade as a coach. Then there's Richard Blaze and Phil Blake and not a lot else.

Aaron Mauger coming in as head coach and bringing coaches with him addresses some of these issues. If we keep Murphy, he needs to be something like a skills coach. Employ a kicking coach rather than make that a string to Murphy's coach. Employ a dedicated backs coach. Employ a dedicated forward's coach. Give them assistants where necessary.

That then frees up Cockerill to be the public face and in charge or strategy and recruitment. Just being able to concentrate on being Director of Rugby.

This said, I could see a situation where the role of Head Coach becomes the top job and Mauger becomes the accountable public face, Director of Rugby is made redundant and Cockerill becomes the casualty.

So I'm agreeing that things aren't rosy. It's been a difficult season all round but where improvements can be made for me is a reorganisation of the coaching set up, which lacks depth and specialism.

[darganj]

I have been reading the posts on this forum for a while and I find it amazing that people are standing up for Richard Cockerill. The recruitment policy has been nothing short of dire in recent years and a lot of young talent has left. Any DOR that shows faith in a plethora of defensive players (Crane, Allen, Scully etc) is going out to not lose matches rather than to win them.

There needs to be an overhaul at Tigers and there needs to be a DOR who has a vision of attacking rugby for the next few years. Defensive teams are not going to win Premiership and ERCs over the next few years, the game has changed and Tigers need to move with the times.

[Roly]

I have been reading the posts on this forum for a while and I find it amazing that people are standing up for Richard Cockerill. The recruitment policy has been nothing short of dire in recent years and a lot of young talent has left. Any DOR that shows faith in a plethora of defensive players (Crane, Allen, Scully etc) is going out to not lose matches rather than to win them.

There needs to be an overhaul at Tigers and there needs to be a DOR who has a vision of attacking rugby for the next few years. Defensive teams are not going to win Premiership and ERCs over the next few years, the game has changed and Tigers need to move with the times.

And frankly, so do some of the supporters. Even the most myopic of the Crumbie's automatons must surely see that an overhaul is required.

Blind faith labelled as 'loyalty' is not going to help. In life, your best friend is the one who will tell you the truth, warts and all, not the one who simply smiles and tells you everything is okay, when patently, it isn't.

[Iain]

There needs to be an overhaul at Tigers and there needs to be a DOR who has a vision of attacking rugby for the next few years.

But do we not have a head coach coming in to do just that? Like I said, it isn't as simple as saying "Cockerill out".

[Chobbsy]

Happy clapper here or whatever else you want to call me.

Who do you suggest we employ as a new DOR. You are quick enough to suggest Cockerill should no longer be it so I presume you have a better idea of who it should be. What kind of rugby will guarantee we win trophies? Quins style? They have 1 Premiership title and no major European trophy. Northampton's style? 1 Premiership title and 1 major European title. Bath's style? When was the last time they won a major trophy?!

I am fed up of people saying it is all Cockerills fault and he should be sacked but no one ever gives a strong enough opinion of what the answer is. It is probably because no one knows which is why we are supporters and not members of the board.

It will be interesting to see how many people calling for Cockerill to be sacked will voice their opinion if we finish in the top 4.

I put this under another topic, Giants of European Rugby, but I think it is worth submitting in this topic also, as I was shocked when I heard it, first hand
I spoke to 2 ex-Tiger legends recently, one used to wear 7 and the other 8. I asked if they were happy with the appointment of Aaron Mauger they said extremely happy but he wouldn't be able to anything until we had a DoR who 1 could do the job and 2 who had some man management skills.

[Iain]

I rest my case, the few successes aside this club has hit the skids with RC at the helm, he can't take them any further as DOR.

Not quite how I'd put it. Break down Cockerill's record since he bcame Director of Rugby in 2009.

2009: Champions
2010: Champions
2011: Final
2012: Final - despite an horrendous World Cup related start.
2013: Champions
2014: Semi-final.

The Heineken Cup is a different beast. That hasn't been won by an English side in that time as it's becoming nigh on impossible to compete in that. A gap that has widened in that time, and yet in his first season we still made the final along with a couple of well earned quarter finals.

So his track record actually stands up against anyone you wish to measure him against.

But if the question is have we failed to keep up with teams around us in the last 18 months and has Cockerill taken us as far as he can then that's a different question. I'm not convinced either way but there is a valid conversation to be had if we don't have a good run to the end of the season.

As it goes, I like Cockerill. I like how open he is when interviewed, I like how he instills the club's values in everyone, I like that he's honest and passionate and loves the club probably even more than I do. I personally think that the problem isn't Cockerill, the problem is an inexperienced and under staffed coaching team, but I get that there's a conversation to be had. I'd be keeping him and see what impact a new coaching set up has next season, rather than risk throwing the baby out with the bath water.

[Will S]

I wouldn't jump out of a boat unless I knew there was a better boat I could hop on board. At the moment I can't think of a DOR that is available that is any better than RC. This may change after the World Cup.

To be fair I think RC is good at motivating the guys (you only have to look at some half time turnarounds) and he has also got our forwards going well. The main problem is the lack of cutting edge in our backs which I think RC is the first to admit is not his area of strength. This point has been addressed however from next season so I would be tempted to ride out this period and see if the changes that are already in motion have the desired impact. The only thing I would add is that Mauger has to be given complete control of the backs so his influence can be realised.

[Iain]

Happy clapper here or whatever else you want to call me.

Who do you suggest we employ as a new DOR. You are quick enough to suggest Cockerill should no longer be it so I presume you have a better idea of who it should be. What kind of rugby will guarantee we win trophies? Quins style? They have 1 Premiership title and no major European trophy. Northampton's style? 1 Premiership title and 1 major European title. Bath's style? When was the last time they won a major trophy?!

I am fed up of people saying it is all Cockerills fault and he should be sacked but no one ever gives a strong enough opinion of what the answer is. It is probably because no one knows which is why we are supporters and not members of the board.

It will be interesting to see how many people calling for Cockerill to be sacked will voice their opinion if we finish in the top 4.

I put this under another topic, Giants of European Rugby, but I think it is worth submitting in this topic also, as I was shocked when I heard it, first hand
I spoke to 2 ex-Tiger legends recently, one used to wear 7 and the other 8. I asked if they were happy with the appointment of Aaron Mauger they said extremely happy but he wouldn't be able to anything until we had a DoR who 1 could do the job and 2 who had some man management skills.

Well the 7 to my mind could be one of either two people (I'll name no names) and each of them have a chip on their shoulder and a specific axe to grind. In both cases, the argument has been done to death and you might conclude that they need to wind their necks in a bit.

I have an idea who the 8 may be. Meh. Who knows.

If he doesn't know what he's doing then he's fluked a hell of a lot of success in six years. If he has no man management skills there's a hell of a lot of players who have stayed and re-signed contracts who must just find it too much of a faff to leave in that case.

You're just as likely to find a former player who has plenty good to say about him.

[covrich]

Whether or not you want Cockers to go or stay I see no benefit in getting rid now..

Whilst I may be accused or being both happy clapper or doom monger, I still think we need to wait to see how the AP folds out.

Don't get me wrong I do feel we need change and some fresh blood in the system to stop what to me feels like some rot seeping in and maybe an overhaul is needed!!!

However... Cockers walking out the front door now I don't think is going to help us. We would lose a good forwards coach if nothing else and who are we going to get as caretaker at the minute given our coaching staff is stretched and undermanned as it is.

[Iain]

Whether or not you want Cockers to go or stay I see no benefit in getting rid now..

Whilst I may be accused or being both happy clapper or doom monger, I still think we need to wait to see how the AP folds out.

Don't get me wrong I do feel we need change and some fresh blood in the system to stop what to me feels like some rot seeping in and maybe an overhaul is needed!!!

However... Cockers walking out the front door now I don't think is going to help us. We would lose a good forwards coach if nothing else and who are we going to get as caretaker at the minute given our coaching staff is stretched and undermanned as it is.

Agree with this. But don't forget of course that there will definitely be fresh blood and change in the coaching set up for next season. That's already a given.

[johnthegriff]

Most people seem to agree that the forward play has been ok, obviously there is division over the Crane/Waldrom selection personally I am in the Crane camp but I can see both sides, I don't think either is the complete package for today's game. There in lies the problem many posters talk about buying players, there is not much of that, players are recruited when they are free of contract and given a contract by their new employer. The salary cap ensures that further recruitment can only take place when other players have been off loaded or money freed by reduction of wages to players whose value has reduced. It is a system that does not have the immediacy of the soccer buy & sell transfer system.
Our backs due to injury have not functioned well for last and this season, the recruitment of Bai and Loamanu should have been adequate to replace Allen & Tuilagi when unavailable, they were not injured when they came we were unlucky. I believe Roberts could be the answer at 12 and push Allen for his place. The return of Morris and the recruitment of Bell could be the start of a gradual change even prior to Mauger arriving. We must stick with Cocker to oversee the change it is to soon to just dump all that is good about Tigers we have an extended pre-season for 2015/16 time to change what needs to change and improve what is already good.

[covrich]

Whether or not you want Cockers to go or stay I see no benefit in getting rid now..

Whilst I may be accused or being both happy clapper or doom monger, I still think we need to wait to see how the AP folds out.

Don't get me wrong I do feel we need change and some fresh blood in the system to stop what to me feels like some rot seeping in and maybe an overhaul is needed!!!

However... Cockers walking out the front door now I don't think is going to help us. We would lose a good forwards coach if nothing else and who are we going to get as caretaker at the minute given our coaching staff is stretched and undermanned as it is.

Agree with this. But don't forget of course that there will definitely be fresh blood and change in the coaching set up for next season. That's already a given.

Exactly, I do realise this whether or not and how much this alters the culture so to speak we shall see/ pray hope..

Which is why I see little point in getting rid of cockers now.

I think this season is what is is now.. we will have to accept and deal with it now and hope things start to click.. I dont think we will be any better off slinging out people now.. probably worse off.

[Noggs]

As Iain say's, no other Premiership DoR can match our record in terms consistent achievement, end of.

Yes, at the moment we are up and down and attacking play in particular needs to improve. Racing were spectacular over the weekend but they are probably spending at least twice what we are on their squad which you would expect would make a difference. It is no coincidence what the four English teams going through to the quarter finals are all playing away!

The fact that we have some coaching weaknesses has been recognised and hopefully addressed for next season. Player retention is always going to be a complex issue and those who chose to go will do so for may different reasons (money; family issues; desire to play overseas; etc.). Just because the supports think they should stay is not a reason for them to stay and there may be nothing the club can do about it. To blame the DoR for each loss without any knowledge of events is just dumb.

It's not about making excuses but it is about criticising from a base of knowing.

[castrofan]

Most people seem to agree that the forward play has been ok, obviously there is division over the Crane/Waldrom selection personally I am in the Crane camp but I can see both sides, I don't think either is the complete package for today's game. There in lies the problem many posters talk about buying players, there is not much of that, players are recruited when they are free of contract and given a contract by their new employer. The salary cap ensures that further recruitment can only take place when other players have been off loaded or money freed by reduction of wages to players whose value has reduced. It is a system that does not have the immediacy of the soccer buy & sell transfer system.
Our backs due to injury have not functioned well for last and this season, the recruitment of Bai and Loamanu should have been adequate to replace Allen & Tuilagi when unavailable, they were not injured when they came we were unlucky. I believe Roberts could be the answer at 12 and push Allen for his place. The return of Morris and the recruitment of Bell could be the start of a gradual change even prior to Mauger arriving. We must stick with Cocker to oversee the change it is to soon to just dump all that is good about Tigers we have an extended pre-season for 2015/16 time to change what needs to change and improve what is already good.

+1

I think that R.C has acknowledged that he needs help with the coaching, particularly of the backs and has picked the right man to come in. If Aaron Mauger brings other proven coaches with him then that`s all to the good. We need to give the new head coach time to settle in and work his magic. We already have good players, they just need to be well coached, confident, fit and healthy. No point in calling for such a massive change as a new D.O.R when we have a new head coach on his way.