Rugby glory being bought by the Rich- Help save the game!

[fleabane]

I too remember the game as recalled by Big Dai. I was a wing forward, and number 8 was a lock, and locks were second rows. The rules were less complicated, and the scrum was peopled by men of large girth rather than overdeveloped musculature. There were far fewer resets and scrum halves were penalised for not putting the ball in straight.

How money can return us to those golden shores, I do not know.

(99 was not a kind of ice cream either!)

[Tigersunited]

Just a thought, if we got bought by a rich owner who ensured that we spend up to the cap, when others can't and spent millions on state of the art facilities, coaching etc, giving us huge success.. Who would stop supporting?

[Big Dai]

Fleabane, It can’t. The game as we knew it has gone the way of all flesh.

If you have an amateur game then the intensity of that game is itself capped by the abilities of the players which is turn capped by their capability to escape their full time employment to train and hone their skills and finally represent club and country.

“Club” is an important term here because you are depending on a membership which draws players and spectator alike from a catchment area around the club. Move job, move area, you move club. I would add that some “club” players here would not be worth their place strict rules on ability were applied and are there for financial or nepotistic reasons, but I’m not getting contentious!

Everything ticks along quite nicely with club games of “rugger” being played. We kick the proverbial out of each other on the pitch, hurl derision at the Welsh, where the game is evolving from a lower social stratum, and get blathered afterwards.

Someone says “I know………we’ll have a league and a cup” .....All of a sudden competition seriously raises its head. Each club, although vowing firmly to remain amateur, look for sneaky ways to encourage the best players to their club and create space for their team spend more time training together and beat the opposition. We also need to find a way to ensure players are compensated for time spent away from their day job because of injury.

Mud is slung! This club is breaking the rules of amateurism, and this one, and this one. The Problem is, of course that they are all at it.
I know…….we’ll go professional make all this sneaking about legal. But we’ll try and keep the playing field level by restricting the amount of money each team can spend on players. The problem is now rugby is the only thing supporting rugby. Players have to be paid and working wage, as do all the support functions. The sink hole for cash has opened up.

You now need even better players from outside your traditional catchment area to maintain the status of the side. You start with one or two stars.

The international body also need to make money to pay their players and keep the coffers filled. They also take away your best players whilst the league is still being played so you need yet more players to take their place and yet more funds. There’s the argument about developing from within or buying journeymen. Either way it costs.

Sponsorship is one way to partially plug the sinkhole so advertising space is sold, kit manufacturers jump on the band wagon. Gate prices spiral, replica shirt prices spiral………………………Some clubs can’t keep up and die.
Television rights are sold, coverage of the game expands and with it the parasitic mass of pundit and commentator…Cost is only going in one direction.
The relationship the club had with the spectator changes and with it the nature of the crowds, from the knowledgeable club members to the tribal supporters of football. Chanting and booing of officials and kickers are now commonplace.

The players are now honed to perfection, muscular, ripped, fit so the game itself has a new intensity. Technology equips referees with cameras and microphones, there’s even a referee OFF the pitch looking at every niggle and dig.

Injuries become more common, you need a whole dedicated medical team to cope plus the budget to maintain the injured staff plus attract quality replacements.

Some teams break the salary cap (allegedly, says he, very quickly.) so’s this one, and this one, and this one…………………Mud is slung. Where next? Lift the lid off the salary cap? More clubs are set to die and the spiral continues so only the very wealthy will survive at any competitive level.

A petition won’t stop this "progress". Canute would have more chance in holding back the sea. The only hope we have is that the bubble will burst and order will come out of chaos.

Or just be content with supporting a lower tier team………a bit like supporting the City.

Or pray for a benefactor

(These are my views………they may be complete and utter rhubarb.)

[fleabane]

Sadly Big Dai, you are right. Maybe we have to wait to play that game on the Elysian Fields.

[Big Dai]

Just had a conversation with a neighbour that sort of relates to money and the survival of certain clubs. I hope the Mods will be patient with the language. The fleshpots of Newport were a no go area for me today so I didn't get to see their 9-11 defeat today.

Me "Been to the game then?"
Ben "Yep. Come on you Blues!"
Me "Blues? I thought you were a man of Gwent?"
Ben "Pooler man me! Wouldn't support them Black and Amber "Censored" (Word used implied the whole team were conceived out of wedlock)
Ben "Besides they win "Censored" (Nothing)"

A Pontypool supporter would never support Newport. Any supporter will want their team to win.

[northerntiger]

The biggish elephant in the room is that back in the uncomplicated days of amateurism the game was really boring to watch. It was a players game. I used to go to Orrell as a kid and most of the games were turgid. The famous Baa Baas game referred to was terrible, a few great moments of skill, but an unbelievable amount of knock ons, drops etc. If people want to watch old style amateur rugby, it is there, in the championship or below. Personally, I like the big crowds, big games, that pro rugby has given us.

[Smudge]

Something in what you say NT but I think there is a mid way which can/could
give the best of both worlds.
Most if not all the Premiership directors know what happened to the likes of Richmond,
London Scottish etc., and what money did to Gosforth et al.
They should also be aware of what unfettered wealth has done to wendyball.

To quote an old saying, "let the shipwrecks of others be your steering markers"!

[Big Dai]

The biggish elephant in the room is that back in the uncomplicated days of amateurism the game was really boring to watch. It was a players game. I used to go to Orrell as a kid and most of the games were turgid. The famous Baa Baas game referred to was terrible, a few great moments of skill, but an unbelievable amount of knock ons, drops etc. If people want to watch old style amateur rugby, it is there, in the championship or below. Personally, I like the big crowds, big games, that pro rugby has given us.

I don't think the game was boring to watch at all. You just had to understand it? One two bump is about as boring as it gets and as for the relentless scrum resets.............This is a matter of taste and I should not be drawn in.

If you want big crowds and pro rugby then the question remains how do you fund a team to stay there?

Take care! Smudges proverb rings very true.

[northerntiger]

I agree with you on the scrums Dai, and also the worry of going them same way as football. I hate the way some of the French sides are buying their way to success. I think that a properly applied salary cap is the way to go, which should be applied across world rugby, or at least for teams competing in the same tournament. It's not all doom and gloom, us, Saints and Exeter are doing fine without a sugar daddy. I do think though, that the game now is a much better spectacle than it was, and better to watch for the none players in the audience. Someone mentioned the Eng-Wales grand slam game earlier, the Ringer match. I seem to remember that it was 9-6 and a truly awful game.

[TomWeston]

Perhaps all is not lost - yet!

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/sh ... 1a340cf33b

[TomWeston]

Something in what you say NT but I think there is a mid way which can/could
give the best of both worlds.
Most if not all the Premiership directors know what happened to the likes of Richmond,
London Scottish etc., and what money did to Gosforth et al.
They should also be aware of what unfettered wealth has done to wendyball.

To quote an old saying, "let the shipwrecks of others be your steering markers"!

Written like an old salt, Smudge!

[Hot_Charlie]

Just a thought, if we got bought by a rich owner who ensured that we spend up to the cap, when others can't and spent millions on state of the art facilities, coaching etc, giving us huge success.. Who would stop supporting?

It may be worth noting that our chairman and at least of of our current board members are in the "exceptionally rich" category. Go back a year or two and you could add another. I think if the opportunity arose there may be a queue of rich potential owners.

The difference with Tigers is that we aren't relying on them and appear to be nicely self sustaining even having recently built the Cat/GNC/Met-RX stand. Name a rugby club in the British Isles who own a better home ground - or one with as much potential? Training facilities?

[Hinckley Bob]

The difference with Tigers is that we aren't relying on them and appear to be nicely self sustaining even having recently built the Cat/GNC/Met-RX stand. Name a rugby club in the British Isles who own a better home ground - or one with as much potential? Training facilities?

Wasps?

[Hot_Charlie]

As I haven't visited yet, and they've only been in a week or two, I didn't count them. I'd give them a year or two to settle in first.

[mol2]

The problem is that salary caps are:

1)Difficult to police.
2)Could be interpreted as a restraint of trade.
3?Sanctions for breaching the salary cap may be difficult to enforce without huge amounts of cash to litigate. These would be civil cases relating to contract law. Uber rich sugar daddies can probably more easily fund the legal fight to block sanctions/penalties for breaching the salary cap than the league as a whole.

One way to circumvent some of the legal costs might be for the league to disband and reform without the offending club. Would require a very cohesive effort by the "clean" clubs. However if a number of clubs are also breaching the cap it might be tricky to get this supported.

Could binding adjudication be brought into the league contract that forbids recourse to litigation? Again might prove tricky as expensive legal teams may well be able to find ways of challenging this and going to court.

Probably end up with the sugar daddies swinging their minks and diamond studded handbags at each other.

OK one example is Rangers being relegated from the league but they had run out of money to fight the league. (Run out of money altogether!)