Rugby glory being bought by the Rich- Help save the game!

[Old Hob]

1.Once Rugby elected to go down the soccer model route the economics of the soccer model inevitably follow. Cricket, which has 4 men and a dog watching even first class sides on a Friday in May, would have been a better way.
2. Griffiths at Sarries, I have long been convinced, has his own agenda. His clone clubs across the globe are his plan B if the he fails to have the salary cap lifted. Just as the cricket model was usurped/changed by the Indian smash-em cricket farce so I suspect there is something similar in the possible Griffith's plans. Like Ecclestone and Formula 1 any "new" version of the game could be owned by an individual or group bypassing existing structures.
3.It is little wonder that clubs do not grow if they treat potential sponsors with such contempt and a lack of understanding that sponsorship is a two-way process with the sponsor getting something out of the deal. If you are after donations that is one thing; sponsorship is something different; therefore: "For a while, I was part of a committee to help resurrect Cambridge RUFC and when lobbying local corporates for sponsorship and trying to fill the pre-game lunch room, one response from a very rich, electronics company was that they saw Cambridge RUFC club as being too low a profile for them to hang there logo on - great eh! It is not just the money but the profile that counts - apparently? Had the Tigers been local, I'm sure they would have had more than one box etc?

Of course the profile matters, matching the sponsor to the receiver. Your "Give me the money and %$* off" is not a very attractive offer.

[tigerburnie]

Rugby has had this problem for decades, the alleged "boot money" and "jobs for players" era that I played in wasn't an even playing field either. During the amateur era there were several ways that clubs would "entice " players to turn out for them on a Saturday that were not considered to be exactly "following the line". Not quite the " end of the game" more the end of an era as the pro game evolves, take a look at France, once great clubs now struggling, well that happened here and will continue to as well.

[JackFlashJonny]

I am creating my petition but could do with some advice on the sentiments and structure if anyone has a second please help.

Petitioning World Rugby

Title: Stop greed and rich men ruining Rugby

Rugby has long been a game of Gentleman and since the emergence of Toulon in Europe there has been a 'Super Club' culture growing in which rich men are looking to buy titles, glory and the worlds best players. This is not the Rugby we all want to see please sign this petition to make World Rugby, EPC Rugby and anyone else take note that the Rugby folk of the world do not want its game bought by the highest bidder.

I have started this petition as I am growing to hate the game I love. The likes of Toulon, Racing, Saracens and Bath are looking to throw money at people to have the worlds best players and if something is not done soon especially with the farce that is the salary cap in France then it will be too late and whoever spends the most will win titles each season as Toulon have shown in the past two years. It will become a game of the have and have nots and as we are already seeing in Europe teams will struggle to compete because of the foreign stars one team can buy.

Any advice welcome thanks I understand this will probably go nowhere but if we get it out into the Rugby community who knows I am sure our friends down in New Zealand, Australia and South Africa are sick of the French especially stealing all their best players.

I have to at least try something thanks for reading

[DickyP]

Unfortunately we in England are between the devil and the deep blue sea. Much as we may deplore (hate) the French model, we need them because they are the only other top-rank nation with a viable club structure. Any solution imposed and involving the NZ, Aus, Wales, Ireland & Scotland unions involves the severe danger that it could lead to domestic competition being run by the RFU to the benefit of the international team at the expense of competition, and rugby's soul. The AP would become just another bunch of games to give players a run-out in a semi-competitive preparation for more and more meaningless internationals.

Just look at the WRU central contracts being given to their players which mean they if they play all the European competition games they cannot play in more than 10 of the 22 Pro 12 fixtures and 4 LV fixtures. Just imagine the last game of the season and you need to win to qualify for the play-off and the RFU says that Manu, Youngs x2, Cole etc can't play!

[JackFlashJonny]

I think you are missing the point DickyP it is not about the model so to speak more to do with the salary cap and its exploitation.

I completely agree the Welsh model is awful for the club game hence it is dying over there whereas the support for the national side is ever stronger!

All I want is rich men such as Wray, Mourad, Lorenzetti and Craig brought in line so the super clubs do not win all the titles each year buying name after name!

I mean if you look at Toulon's squad for next year it is embarrassing!

[ourla]

Flash,

I don't think DickyP is missing the point at all. And given the lack of interest they showed in the European cup saga I can't see the IRB getting involved in this either. How we run our domestic leagues is down to us. Each union dicates how they want the game to be run in their domain. The IRB either can't or don't want to dicate to the French or English how they run their game and or how strongly they enforce their own rules. If they did as DickyP points out they would probably tell us to get in line with all the other nations. If the RFU and the clubs broadly stick together owners like Craig and Wray will have to live with it. What the French do is broadly out of our control. But ultimately they will face the consequence of their actions, domestically and internationally.

There seem to be a lot of "petitions" these days. I am not against them but just saying you'd need it to be very focused to make an impact. Personally I wouldn't direct it against the IRB/World Rugby. I would concentrate on the RFU and Premiership Rugby. If the French want to allow things to spiral out of control it will ultimately unravel and we would have the last laugh. But if we can demonstrate good practice to them and show them the way, they will surely follow.

Jusy my 2p.

[DickyP]

I think you are missing the point DickyP it is not about the model so to speak more to do with the salary cap and its exploitation.

The French model IS the salary cap and its exploitation by rich individuals. What France needs is a few Richmonds!

[Smudge]

I'm not sure what we can do about the frogs.Is there any pressure from their press
or within their game?
We can regulate our own and there is clearly a desire to abide by the cap, even an expanded one.

As always, laws are only any good if they are enforced.
If Baaaarth and Safacens are proven to have broken the SC then the penalties
must be severe. Not just a fine (no problem to money bags) and points deduction
but a disqualification of the directors/owners and relegation.

As Jonny has indicated, the sport is in real danger of going the wendyball route
to the detriment of all but the greedy.

[JackFlashJonny]

Sorry DickyP I misunderstood your post regarding the model...

And yes Ourla you are right it almost seems pointless before I have begun but I just don't know what we can do.

The main point I want to raise is all Rugby fans across the world do not want the French model it is against the fabric of our game and the only thing I can see bringing this in line is if they are kicked out of Europe along with anyone else flouting the rules.

Obviously this is never going to happen as its all about money!

Whilst the French exist how can anyone compete fairly without throwing the big bucks at it....European rugby is no longer the same beast!

RIP European rugby!

[ourla]

TBH Flash you seem to be wearing some rosy tinted glasses there. Just as one example was eye gouging part of the fabric of the game? Was Neil Backs infamous "cheat" to win secure us an HC win part of the fabric of the game? Bloodgate? Let's not get all high and mighty about this. Rugby has many good values and long may they remain but it's not whiter than white.

All sports have moved on in many ways. And as a result there are pro's and con's. When I flash my ST card over the reader wearing my replica shirt and wander up the stairs to sit in the big modern "MetRX" stand there is of course always the thoughts of what we've gained and what we've lost.

Don't get me wrong I think you are right to be concerned about the influence of rich owners and of how they running the game across the channel. But lets be fair and honest.

[Phil B]

Over Christmas I was able to return to England, and drink some beers with some old friends. One of these bemoans the fact that no one writes good classical music anymore (a la Beethoven Marler etc.) and no one paints like Constable.

The reality is that times have changed - we can look back and remember how it used to be, but I think we are wasting our time if we think that we can "put back the clock".

Rugby is global, professional, and will be whatever the sponsors (and the public) want it to be.

As has been pointed out, if you don't like it, then don't support it.

[tigercaspian]

Agree with ourla, but not without some wistfulness. However, of the aforementioned cash-throwing owners only one has much silverware in his trophy cabinet to show for all the efforts of his wallet and, post-Wilkinson, we wait to see if that will continue.
Sarries look a different (lesser) side without Borthwick, and the other two have nothing to show yet so maybe all is not lost

[Noggs]

We seem to be moving away from the main point of the thread, namely, how the Premiership is run.

A claim was made that 7 of the current clubs would support scraping the cap but I have heard little in support of this claim. The rules will only change if the turkeys vote for Christmas and I can't see that happening in the short term. If it did happen it would be a very sad day for the game we know and love and I have no doubt that it would do significant damage to the national team.

Rather than speculate it is a pity that TRP or some other organ doesn't speak to each club to establish their position on the issue. In that way we would all know the actual size of the threat.

[JackFlashJonny]

Ourla most of the moments you are looking at all happen in the heat of battle and on the pitch and whilst maybe cheating are not the same surely you cannot compare one man (or a few in Bloodgates case) trying to get an extra edge whilst involved in a game to the long term planning of buying trophies by rich men.

I just find it strange they see if as an achievement I mean if you put together a world XV surely they are going to beat everyone else?

The Rugby Champions Cup may be in its infancy but Phil is right we cannot do anything about it so we either have to put up and shut up or leave rugby behind.

Noggs- I would be very interested to hear what all the clubs have to say on the matter!

[Hinckley Bob]

I agree that any petition needs to be aimed at PRL to hopefully ensure that they rigorously enforce the agreed rules. If they follow the RFU example they will put their heads in the sand and not rock the boat. If it comes to the crunch, let the Saffas join the French Top 14/15 but do not back down to Mr Wray and friends.