A Question To The Anti-Cockers Brigade

[RagingBull]

I'm not in the 'sack Cockers now' camp (if indeed there is one?), but a few of us chatted it through after the game on Saturday and there were a few in the 'can Cockers take us any further camp?'.

On the subject of the coaches, I am amazed Geordan Murphy's role isn't being questioned at all. I've said before a few times that when you read his book he bemoans how the Tigers management often curtailed his flair and sense of adventure when he played. 15 months into the job and where is the flair and adventure in our back-line under Mr G. Murphy? A simple question: are our backs better and more threatening last season and this compared to 2012-13? Forget the injuries - we still have plenty of weapons. Benjamin looked lively on Saturday IMHO… well he looked lively the 2 times he was given the ball. And Tait in particular has gone backwards in the last 15 months…

TF to Murphy how often has he had the same Backline for more than 3 weeks to work with, esp with players in there first choice position.

Especially in the centre partnerships. I'm trying to reverse judgment on him and his coaching ability until he manages to get a decent length of time to work on a backline.

[Noddy555]

Yes kpj the good talent in coaching is already spoken for, but how much rope does Cockers need and how long will the directors who are not known for their patience put up with it?

[mike]

For me , one of the biggest downsides of the Cockerill era has been the gradual downgrading of the player development side of the Club . 5 or 6 years ago we regularly performed well at Development Team level and produced a stream of good players from our Academy , some of whom were International Class .The last in this category was Manu ( 5 years ago ? ) and looking at recent development team matches the cupboard is looking thin . I acknowledge that not all Academy players make the grade but 2 rejects of the recent past , Lewington and Purdy certainly did o.k for their new clubs last weekend . Add in Ford and Twelvetrees there are a few who slipped away when perhaps they could have been kept . It almost seems to be Policy that funds have been diverted from the Academy/Dev side to pay for late in career foreign imports .

[TigerCam]

Anyone that has an alternative to the "Tigers way of doing things"

[TigerLad]

Look at what Cockers has done for this club and show me another DOR in world rugby who has done the same. I know you'll probably say 'a club like us should be this successful' or 'we have the best resources', but why is that the case? We don't win games by just rocking up on the day. It's down to Cockers and his support staff who organise everything and drive this club forward. Cockers has a superb record and is still very young at 40 odd. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone as successful as Cockers at such a young age. Our new defence coach is from the opposite side of the world and has no connection to the club and Burke played for Ireland and only moved here towards the end of his playing career. So it's a bit unfair to presume that we have no outside influence at the club.

[MrPartridge]

Cockers has a superb record

I think we need to alter this slightly to 'Cockers has a superb DOMESTIC record'.

[fortysix]

The best DOR we have had was -its bl**dy obvious--Dean Richards.....

[Smudge]

We all loved Deano but don't let your happy memories blind you to his going and
the manner of it.

He was here at a very good time. Just after Bob Dwyer had kicked us screaming into
the 21st century.
The building blocks were in place. We had a great academy too.
Sadly, with all that transpired, Deano is not going to be invited back.

As for the merit of our DOR?. He has had some limited success but is the little bald corporal
ever going to be invited to coach England?
I doubt it very much, and thereby hangs the tail.
I would like to see someone of the stature of Steve Hansen get the job, once the world cup is over
and he has no doubt won it again.
That is what a club of the stature of Leicester Tigers merits as a DOR.

[The Boy Dave]

We all loved Deano but don't let your happy memories blind you to his going and
the manner of it.

He was here at a very good time. Just after Bob Dwyer had kicked us screaming into
the 21st century.
The building blocks were in place.

Some would say that Conor O'Shea has been fortunate to inherit the building blocks that Deano put in place, Deano also signed Nick Evans.

[jgriffin]

Deano has shown, twice, that his ego is bigger than any club. Magnificent player (once my hero), great but flawed manager, huge ego. Yearning for the Deano era - seen through rose-tinted specs - is nostagic tosh.

Cockers has had considerable success and clearly has less of an ego issue. Confronted with a repeat crisis, he and the club are investigating what has contributed to this. The club has signed a defence coach with good credentials and record.

I am at a loss as to what more people require.

Many of those mooted as alternatives have no record at club level - only Warren Gatland and Nick Mallett spring to mind.

[Smudge]

Well there you go. You have named two more candidates I would gladly accept.
J White is free isn't he.

Clearly, anyone who is deemed good enough to coach at international level has had
success at club level.
The glaring exception being MJ.

[kend]

Well there you go. You have named two more candidates I would gladly accept.
J White is free isn't he.

Clearly, anyone who is deemed good enough to coach at international level has had
success at club level.
The glaring exception being MJ.

Is the reference to Jake White ironic:

White’s allegedly dictatorial coaching style won him few friends in the Shark Tank and it has been agreed that he will step down after just one year in the job........Under White, the Sharks won 11 of 16 pool matches and won a quarter-final against the Highlanders before being thumped in the semi-final by the Crusaders, but while White got results, the conservative style of play was not popular with many fans.

Sound familiar?

Even an international coach will face the same resource constraints and won't arrive with a magic wand to fix injuries!

As for the merit of our DOR?. He has had some limited success but is the little bald corporal
ever going to be invited to coach England?
I doubt it very much, and thereby hangs the tail.

Actually, Chalkie White was never asked to coach England and it's highly unlikely that Deano will be either, so what exactly is your point? That England have a blind spot for Tigers coaches?

I find this

the little bald corporal

a startling lack of respect for a fellow who has risen close to the top of his profession (unless you think Leicester, England, Montferrand and being the currenly most successful 'domestic' DoR is a failure? Your definition of limited success is interesting.)

[The Boy Dave]

Deano has shown, twice, that his ego is bigger than any club. Magnificent player (once my hero), great but flawed manager, huge ego. Yearning for the Deano era - seen through rose-tinted specs - is nostagic tosh.

Deano made a mistake in a competition most of us deemed unfair on playing grounds and stuck to his guns on another occasion.
His biggest flaw was supplying the core of an international side, sounding familiar?
They all have ego's and they all make mistakes.
Bad idea getting anyone in to replace Cockers IMO.
We have won two out of four matches.
Beating Exeter away was a great result, obviously Bath was disappointing but they took full advantage of the situation as they are a quality team, I could feel the added pressure on the players at WR on Saturday, not ideal under the circumstances.
I would love those ready to step in to be of the highest quality and trounce everyone but that isn't going to happen under a salary cap but there has been some good performers.
Regarding injured players I think there is such a wide range of injuries it's simply bad luck, nothing more, if they were linked they would be similar in type.
I know some feel Cockers did not use his subs correctly on Saturday but we need to be careful with Pearce after such a long lay off a couple of minutes burst to try and do something and not become a big target for hits so early in his comeback was wise IMO, we also need to be careful who we expose before the international squads are named as we could well end up losing more than we anticpate and with an already stretched squad that could be disastrous as some players qualify for a couple of nations.
Folk need to think a little more about the entire situation before making wild claims.

[Smudge]

Kend By the same token, your definition of success is clearly much lower than mine.

If the summit of your ambition is that, fair enough, it's not mine.

The "little bald corporal" description has been used by others on this forum but
does seem to fit the subject rather well.

OK to command in limited skirmishes but for a war/campaign you require at least
a three star general.

We are being led in this campaign by a soldier who has been promoted beyond his talents.

Anyone who has seen "crisis management" in action will reccognise this instantly.

(Cue "Lions led by donkeys" from someone

[Smudge]

Kend wrote

Actually, Chalkie White was never asked to coach England and it's highly unlikely that Deano will be either, so what exactly is your point? That England have a blind spot for Tigers coaches?

Actually Chalkie was a friend of mine and he was the best coach England never had.
The reason he was never offered the appointment was simple. In those days you had to have been capped by England as the basic qualification.

He was a hell of a coach though even in those days.

Up to the time things went wrong for Deano at Tigers he would have been a shoe-in for England but the opportunity didn't arise.