Transfer Rumours Thread 2013/2014 Season

[kpj tiger]

Yeah, that story was on April 1st... And look what happens when you rearrange the letters of his name....

Wow fail on my part, I was just on LTUSM for the first time in ages and saw that, didnt even check the date

[4071]

Well we have English Q (A = academy)
LH - Bristow
H - OTY (A), Thacker (A), Briggs
TH - Cole (A), Balmain (A Came from Newcastle at 17/18 I think so 50/50)
SR - Parling, Deacon (A), Slater, Kitchener
BF - Gibson, Croft (A)
OF - 0
N8 - Crane
SH - Youngs (A), Harrison (A)
FH - Burns
IC - Allen, Heptema, Pohe (A)
OC - Manu (A), Smith (A)
W - Benjamin, Thompstone
FB - Tait

23 = EQP 11 products of Leicester. and slater and Heptmea coming to us having yet to play a full pro game.

Compared to foreigners
LH - Ayerza, Rizzo
HO - Ghilrandi
TH - Mulipola
SR - De Cheves
BF - Mafi
OF - Salvi, Matera
N8 - Barberi
SH - Mele
FH - Williams
IC - Bai
OC - Loamanu
W - Goneva, Scully
FB - Morris

16. With Morris, Scully, Matera, Ayerza all coming to Tigers having not played pro rugby.

Yeh because that's a squad full of foreigners.

Well if you are including LV Cup players like Thacker, Pohe and Bristow then it's going to look a little more weighted towards EQ players. But seriously, they are not going to be featuring next season either - each of them is going to be leap-frogged by an incoming foreign signing and will play as much a part as any Academy player - LV Cup and a handful of minutes in real games.

So even including the young Kiwi Hepetema as English you're looking at a squad of 36 with 20 English players in it.

Yeah, that IS a squad full of foreigners.

You might not care - you might think that buying in success is as valid as building it. It's working pretty well for Toulon, after all. I wouldn't mind seeing Tigers in the HC final again!

But whilst you might not care, it's just foolish to try and deny it. Leicester are building an increasingly foreign first team squad. That is a fact.

16 foreigners in the first team squad? That's about the same as the foreign-dominated 'Saffacens' side that bought the title back in 2011...

[tigerburnie]

Surely to compete in any competition you have to have international quality players in most if not all positions, especially in Europe. Does anyone think that we could field a team of mostly English internationals? If we were, what do we do when England comes calling for them all? How do we win any games during the AI's/6 nations and with a world cup round the corner, you will have to rest players and some usually come back broken. Reality check required by some I think.

[The Boy Dave]

Surely to compete in any competition you have to have international quality players in most if not all positions, especially in Europe. Does anyone think that we could field a team of mostly English internationals? If we were, what do we do when England comes calling for them all? How do we win any games during the AI's/6 nations and with a world cup round the corner, you will have to rest players and some usually come back broken. Reality check required by some I think.

I think you completely miss the point, as usual!
I dread to think where we would be as a club without the foreign players and Cockerill and his team do a great job in identifying and developing them, they also do a fantastic job bringing in English talent and turning them into top players. Cockerill is no fool, he knows how rare top players are and if he see's one be it from academy or elsewhere he will take them, he has a history of doing both but obviously one more then the other. What folk do not understand is the lack of academy players capable of making it through in front of those players brought in from elsewhere. Some blame a lack of opportunities, some blame a lack of talent and some blame a lack of expertise most recently within the academy to identify correctly and develop those young players, I have seen it for myself and I know which I believe.

[tigerburnie]

I think you completely miss the point, as usual!
I dread to think where we would be as a club without the foreign players and Cockerill and his team do a great job in identifying and developing them, they also do a fantastic job bringing in English talent and turning them into top players. Cockerill is no fool, he knows how rare top players are and if he see's one be it from academy or elsewhere he will take them, he has a history of doing both but obviously one more then the other. What folk do not understand is the lack of academy players capable of making it through in front of those players brought in from elsewhere. Some blame a lack of opportunities, some blame a lack of talent and some blame a lack of expertise most recently within the academy to identify correctly and develop those young players, I have seen it for myself and I know which I believe.

You are the one mistaken, I refer to the post above mine, which was talking about "foreign players" no mention of the academy in my post. Clearly you have an axe to grind regarding the academy and the fact that "someone" didn't make the grade. Currently we have three players involved with the England under 20's team, so clearly we are still finding, identifying and bringing on those who are actually good enough.

[The Boy Dave]

You are the one mistaken, I refer to the post above mine, which was talking about "foreign players" no mention of the academy in my post. Clearly you have an axe to grind regarding the academy and the fact that "someone" didn't make the grade. Currently we have three players involved with the England under 20's team, so clearly we are still finding, identifying and bringing on those who are actually good enough

You are guaranteed to fail to see the bigger picture. I will put my axe down when we produce some quality players of our own capable of more than teenage rugby. For now I am happy to accept a quality DoR like Cockerill and the sourcing of players from far and wide as needs must. I am very happy that players like Mulipola and Salvi are here at Leicester, we should not be critical of the foreigner but strive to produce players of that quality IMO. It is possible if done correctly IMO. As for age grade internationals I will mention one name, Ed Slater!

[kornboy130]

I don't think it's open for debate whether or not the academy has produced as we'd wish it to in recent years - it just hasn't.

The reason's behind that are up for debate though:
- lack of tallent
- lack of development
- lack of opportunity
- Mix of the above.

Given it's success in the past at producing outstanding players - and our move away from wanting too many EQPs in the EPS - I'd suggest it's a mix but we could produce better.

[tigerburnie]

You are guaranteed to fail to see the bigger picture. I will put my axe down when we produce some quality players of our own capable of more than teenage rugby. For now I am happy to accept a quality DoR like Cockerill and the sourcing of players from far and wide as needs must. I am very happy that players like Mulipola and Salvi are here at Leicester, we should not be critical of the foreigner but strive to produce players of that quality IMO. It is possible if done correctly IMO. As for age grade internationals I will mention one name, Ed Slater!

I think we are on the same hymn sheet here, but I see the academy products differently. If you look at the National league sides you will find a lot of our former(and current) academy players, most have just not been able to make the step up to the Premiership. Of those that were of premiership standard, most have played at Tigers at some stage, some like Billy Twelvetrees, who played for Leicester Lions for a while in Nat2 north level, have made the step up. We are just one club of many who has produced some great players from the academy. In the pro game players will want to move around, hence we benefit from other academies when the likes of Newcastle or Wuss can't offer the same as we can for their futures.

[Cardiff Tig]

Surely its not about how many foreign players we have, its how many foreign journeymen. How many non-English players have actually come in and replaced a better English qualified player?

Ayerza, Salvi, Logo, Williams, and Goneva (from the current squad) are irreplaceable.

I don't see enough of the academy players to be honest about most of their chances but would be certain that RC hasn't let any go that would displace any of that lot.

[mol2]

One issue is the bridging the gap between academy and first team. As a youth you only have to be in the top 15 of your age group to make the starting line up. Once you get to first 15 level you are effectively not just competing for a place with players your own age you are up against the best between the ages of say 20 to 32 both local.

How many players can step between academy and starting line up? A few exceptional talents like Manu, Cole and the Youngs brothers have done it but for many of them they need to play regularly to develop.

To get game time and exposure players may well have to leave and play at lesser clubs. Tigers have often facilitated this through links with Nottingham and Bedford. Even this is a step down from the level the players may aspire to and the level Tigers need. For some this can be enough but some players may feel that their future development may be better served elsewhere.

The reality is no Premiership club can produce a full side of locals who are at or near international standard that they need to compete. They will have to bring some in and develop what they can.

I think the current international window set up doesn't help the development of local talent. Playing matches in the AI and 6N windows results in a temptation to bring in foreign players (near internationals from major test nations or full internationals from smaller nations) who will be available all season because they won't be called up. The LV cup hasn't really been seen as a development squad tournament so didn't address the issue as well as it might.

[tigerburnie]

One issue is the bridging the gap between academy and first team. As a youth you only have to be in the top 15 of your age group to make the starting line up. Once you get to first 15 level you are effectively not just competing for a place with players your own age you are up against the best between the ages of say 20 to 32 both local.

How many players can step between academy and starting line up? A few exceptional talents like Manu, Cole and the Youngs brothers have done it but for many of them they need to play regularly to develop.

To get game time and exposure players may well have to leave and play at lesser clubs. Tigers have often facilitated this through links with Nottingham and Bedford. Even this is a step down from the level the players may aspire to and the level Tigers need. For some this can be enough but some players may feel that their future development may be better served elsewhere.

The reality is no Premiership club can produce a full side of locals who are at or near international standard that they need to compete. They will have to bring some in and develop what they can.

I think the current international window set up doesn't help the development of local talent. Playing matches in the AI and 6N windows results in a temptation to bring in foreign players (near internationals from major test nations or full internationals from smaller nations) who will be available all season because they won't be called up. The LV cup hasn't really been seen as a development squad tournament so didn't address the issue as well as it might.

Very well put, I agree with this sentiment, it is a pity there's not a fuller "A" league to give players on the fringes a chance to show what they can do.

[4071]

Deleted - same old moan... unnecessary....

:)

[h's dad]

One issue is the bridging the gap between academy and first team. As a youth you only have to be in the top 15 of your age group to make the starting line up. Once you get to first 15 level you are effectively not just competing for a place with players your own age you are up against the best between the ages of say 20 to 32 both local.

How many players can step between academy and starting line up? A few exceptional talents like Manu, Cole and the Youngs brothers have done it but for many of them they need to play regularly to develop.

To get game time and exposure players may well have to leave and play at lesser clubs. Tigers have often facilitated this through links with Nottingham and Bedford. Even this is a step down from the level the players may aspire to and the level Tigers need. For some this can be enough but some players may feel that their future development may be better served elsewhere.

The reality is no Premiership club can produce a full side of locals who are at or near international standard that they need to compete. They will have to bring some in and develop what they can.

I think the current international window set up doesn't help the development of local talent. Playing matches in the AI and 6N windows results in a temptation to bring in foreign players (near internationals from major test nations or full internationals from smaller nations) who will be available all season because they won't be called up. The LV cup hasn't really been seen as a development squad tournament so didn't address the issue as well as it might.

Very well put, I agree with this sentiment, it is a pity there's not a fuller "A" league to give players on the fringes a chance to show what they can do.

Well put mol2 but I have to disagree with you Burnie, the 'A' league is even less of an opportunity for players to demonstrate their ability to step up than the Championship. I would support calls for a more complete 'A' league but it is more than a couple of steps short of the senior squad.

[Smurphswillgetya]

Yet another thread hijacked by the same old moan. It's been done to death many times this and previous seasons. At least find something new to moan about. I want to come to this thread to find out who might be coming or leaving and not have to wade through this tripe yet again about the academy.

[Rykard]

i think the nail has been hit on the head - the step up from the academy to prem is too big and there aren't enough 'A' league games to give the youngsters a good go whilst also allowing injured players to come back. A proper 'A' league would help immensly imo.