George Ford

[BJ.]

I expect to see the players required to take a week off.

I'm with mightymouse on this one. I'm sure I heard it mentioned during ESPN's coverage of the match on Saturday Stuart Lancaster is not asking for players to rested prior to the AIs.

[Southernsoftie]

Ah, well wasn't aware of that. Though given the chorus of complaints we usually hear around the topic from the Coaches and the absence thereof this autumn, it sounds very feasible.

Apologies for misinformation

[RWA]

I struggle to see the logic in bringing Ford in for Exeter. Aside from resting Flood for EPS reasons, why would you want to change your 10 and 12 for a match where you want to get back on track and get a win at all costs ? If Ford plays a blinder and ignites the back line then it's an inspired choice, if he fails, it's Cocker's fault for not giving him more game time before ?!! Are we happy to give Ford a run and risk losing some more games ? Aside from Quins, Flood has 2 wins and a draw to his name, and that's not playing that well !! As for 12, would you trust Bowden to block that channel ? I suspect we might see Ford, but can see Manu and 12 and Matt Smith at 13.

[youngtiger]

Maybe Cockers would back GF to run a game against Exeter in a way he would be incapable of against Quins and Saffas?

Can't see how the coaches are being criticised for dropping GF when he hasn't yet even been picked, I think he ought to get some sort of run of games in the AP though Europe will be a tricky call.

[mike]

Quite frankly I don't think changing Ford for Flood will make a scrap of difference if done in isolation .Whichever 10 we pick will have a problem for 2 reasons - the ineffectiveness of our scrum half , and secondly the impotence of our 12 . Options at 9 are indeed limited at present , but manu at 12 and smith at 13 would at least give whichever 10 we choose a fighting chance . I would worry a lot if Bowden was picked at 12 against that big Exeter Samoan( ? ) as he was not known for his defensive grit at london Irish .

[Hull Fan]

He waived it last Xmas as the players had been away so much during RWC. It was made clear at the time, waiving the rest period, which England are entitled to demand for the senior EPS squad, was an exception based on the circumstances at that time. However it is still in the agreement between the RFU and PRL so in the absence of any waiver and with a tough set of AI's to come, I expect to see the players required to take a week off.

During the coverage of the quins game Austin (i think) stated that Lancaster had told the clubs that England wouldn't be enforcing this. It would be left to the clubs to decide if they wanted to rest their EPS players.

[Hull Fan]

Quite frankly I don't think changing Ford for Flood will make a scrap of difference if done in isolation .Whichever 10 we pick will have a problem for 2 reasons - the ineffectiveness of our scrum half , and secondly the impotence of our 12 . Options at 9 are indeed limited at present , but manu at 12 and smith at 13 would at least give whichever 10 we choose a fighting chance . I would worry a lot if Bowden was picked at 12 against that big Exeter Samoan( ? ) as he was not known for his defensive grit at london Irish .

I tend to agree Mike.
Also until the forwards start to ruck past the ball, especially in the attacking areas of the pitch, we won't produce enough quick ball to beat the top teams which have the better defences. It is interesting that against both Sarries & Quins we didn't really create any try scoring chances from open play.
The forwards really need to produce quicker ball and offer some support runners to the ball carrier in order to produce some off loads. Unfortunately we play a more static game than Quins and Northampton, with Sarries having a better defence than us, so IMO we can beat lesser teams, then struggle to breakdown the other top 3 teams. When we play other teams (below the top four) we mostly win, when we really click we give them a good beating and rack up the tries and the bonus points.
So until we adopt a different style i don't think whether Ford, Flood, Manu or Bowden play will make an awful lot of difference to how the game is played.
We need to play a style that is uncomfortable for Quins etc to counter until them we will make the top 4 and make finals but ultimately IMO come up short of silverware.

[Smurphswillgetya]

Unfortunately we play a more static game than Quins and Northampton, with Sarries having a better defence than us, so IMO we can beat lesser teams, then struggle to breakdown the other top 3 teams. When we play other teams (below the top four) we mostly win, when we really click we give them a good beating and rack up the tries and the bonus points.
So until we adopt a different style i don't think whether Ford, Flood, Manu or Bowden play will make an awful lot of difference to how the game is played.
We need to play a style that is uncomfortable for Quins etc to counter until them we will make the top 4 and make finals but ultimately IMO come up short of silverware.

I dont agree with you on this. None of the other 'Top 3' did the double over us last season and Sarries and Quins beat us here when we were missing something like 13 players. Against Quins we created more chances than them but were not clinical enough to finish the moves - player errors rather than coaching or tactics. Quins would struggle if they were without players like Evans, Care, Robshaw and Robson and we were without Youngs, Croft, Ayerza, Smurph, Manu, Deacon.

[Will S]

I don't think it would be a risk playing Ford against Exeter at all. Harrison and Ford know each others game very well and I think George would bring organisation and field position to the team which we desperately need. I would also throw Bowden in there to add a spark - I really think he could set Manu free. Maybe I am wrong but I don't think Bowden would let us down in defence. He is a big lad and never shys away from a tackle.

[mol2]

I struggle to see the logic in bringing Ford in for Exeter. Aside from resting Flood for EPS reasons, why would you want to change your 10 and 12 for a match where you want to get back on track and get a win at all costs ?

Take that to its conclusion & you'll keep playing the same team until you come up against a team weak enough to beat. There are times to stick with players and strategies but for me this is not that time.

Flood wasn't kicking well, we were loosing so what would have been lost by bringing on Ford for the last 20 or 30 minutes. If we'd still lost we would have been no worse off.

If you loose it means that players, tactics or their ability to implement those tactics are below the standard of your opponents on the day.
Come up short once can be dismissed as a one off or inspired performance by the opposition. Keep loosing the big games and it indicates it more likely to be that it's your problem not a series of inspired performances by you opponents.

I'm afraid that currently the Tigers' coaching reminds me of the England cricket team of the late 90s. Got thrashed by the Aussies because the batting failed and responded by dropping Devon Malcom.
What's the link between the two? The coaches were unable to be objective or were simply unable to see an alternative approach to a daunting task.

[Smudge]

Good post. I couldn't agree more.

[jgriffin]

Excellent example of an outrageously stupid selection response. Current Tigers selection reminds me of Wales in Ron Waldron's era. He picked all the hard-grinding Neath players, trained them even harder, and they were exposed by more skilful sides, as well as running out of steam! No Plan B whatsoever.

[tigerburnie]

I am guessing here,but then we all are, but maybe our coaches are looking at the bigger picture and playing your first choice internationals back into some form for the do or die Heineken games, might be the reason for the selections being made.
Two rookies at half back isn't ideal and we can always catch up with the premiership games as it is a long season.

[Hull Fan]

[/quote]I dont agree with you on this. None of the other 'Top 3' did the double over us last season and Sarries and Quins beat us here when we were missing something like 13 players. Against Quins we created more chances than them but were not clinical enough to finish the moves - player errors rather than coaching or tactics. Quins would struggle if they were without players like Evans, Care, Robshaw and Robson and we were without Youngs, Croft, Ayerza, Smurph, Manu, Deacon.[/quote]

Fair enough Smurph
The chances that we created against Quins usually came from a kick through or a error from Quins. We didn't create an open field chance, Morris break in the 1st 10 mins came from Crane kicking the ball through a ruck. Unlike Quins who created one chance from offloads and scored.
I agree we don't know how Quins would manage without their best players, we will have to wait and see.
i feel without changing many faces in the summer quins have still evolved their play and are a better team than when they beat us in the final.
Obviously this is only my opinion and in the bigger picture means very little.

[Mo Leicester]

Tigerbernie - thanks! - at last someone talking (writing?) sense.

We must not be under cooked for the Heineken this year - it has cost us for the last couple of years. Our "best team" must be up to speed for Europe. I suspect the team will be rotated over the next couple of weeks to give players a rest. Not wholesale changes but maybe Flood one week Allen the next with one or two others rested at the same time.

After Europe, the internaionals will see plenty of game time for Ford, Bowden, and hopefully Tait, etc, to prove their worth.

It's a long season, the team will evolve but right now the priority needs to be preparation for Europe.