Was Hartley up to old (and distasteful) trick? - now cited!!

[Jeremy Anderson]

No stains to report!

[Bill W (2)]

No stains to report!

What???? Not even Hartley and Clark???

[Jeremy Anderson]

No stains to report!

What???? Not even Hartley and Clark???

They should be cited and banned not reported

[Purebob]

Is Ferris psychic ?

From Ferris' pre-game interview

Stephen Ferris: "If you ask any team who do they like beating and it's always the English. Why? It's something I can't really put my finger on. We took so many beatings from England at under-age level. Any time we played Under-18s, -19s or -20s we always received a thumping. I never beat them.

[West Haddon Saint]

The fact is that Hartly is an out an out thug and not the sort of character that should be playing international rugby. He is one of those guys who go out to deliberately hurt people and stir up trouble with his late tackles and close quarter skullduggery.

he cannot throw in when the pressure is on him and he has been our best player in recent years when they have played at WR especially when we bait him so unmercilessly, he just cannot cope.

As for his scrummaging, he is a one trick pony - he drives straight up (the old french trick) and then shouts he has popped his opponent - I can tell you any fool can pop his opponent doing that - it is dangerous , causes injury and generally starts a fight in the front row. Only an idiot ref is fooled (which is sadly sometimes the case), however most refs are getting wise to his stupid tricks - If I were the England management I would get rid of him - he is bad news altogether and he must definately NEVER play for the Lions that would be a discrace and an embarrassment.
..............................................
I do not condone any such ALLEGED antics, but do you all apply the same principles to the like of Julian White (thug of the highest order), Manu Tuilagi (Ashton punch speak for itself), and in the past Neil Back and Johnno who could mix it up with the best of them?

I will be the first to call for Hartley's head if the ALLEGATIONS are found to be true, but I think Tigers fans need to take their rose-tinted spectacles off, and look on their players in the same light as they look on those playing for other clubs.

[jgriffin]

I think this has been aired elsewhere - viz Ashton knee in back, hair pull etc. And I wouldn't come on this forum (or indeed Exeter, Glaws, Briz )and call Farmer White a thug.

[BJ.]

I do not condone any such ALLEGED antics, but do you all apply the same principles to the like of Julian White (thug of the highest order), Manu Tuilagi (Ashton punch speak for itself), and in the past Neil Back and Johnno who could mix it up with the best of them?

In a word, yes.

We know Julian White has a short fuse and sometimes he will lash out (ask Andrew Sheridan). Also, despite all the provocation beforehand and slow-motion sensationalistic Sky footage, I cannot and did not defend Manu Tuilagi's actions last season in his altercation with Chris Ashton. However, these incidents are in the past and those responsible have been punished. The cold fact is now in March 2012 a player has had his arm broken by another player and the evidence seems to point towards Calum Clark being the perpetrator. The matter needs to be investigated. What I, as a Tigers supporter, am finding frustrating is the apparent lack of anything happening at the moment.

[Smurphswillgetya]

I do not condone any such ALLEGED antics, but do you all apply the same principles to the like of Julian White (thug of the highest order), Manu Tuilagi (Ashton punch speak for itself), and in the past Neil Back and Johnno who could mix it up with the best of them?

In a word, yes.

We know Julian White has a short fuse and sometimes he will lash out (ask Andrew Sheridan). Also, despite all the provocation beforehand and slow-motion sensationalistic Sky footage, I cannot and did not defend Manu Tuilagi's actions last season in his altercation with Chris Ashton. However, these incidents are in the past and those responsible have been punished. The cold fact is now in March 2012 a player has had his arm broken by another player and the evidence seems to point towards Calum Clark being the perpetrator. The matter needs to be investigated. What I, as a Tigers supporter, am finding frustrating is the apparent lack of anything happening at the moment.

Totally agree BJ

[loretta]

+1

[West Haddon Saint]

In truth, so am I (fustrated at the lack of developments). I do not want players unpunished when something as bad as is alleged to have taken place occurs.

If Clark is found guilty of what many think he is, the book should be thrown at him. I do not want that sort of behaviour from players of a club I support.

If he is found guilty, gets his punishment (a long ban), I will whole-heartedly support that. I just hope that a player of such promising talent can come out the other end a better person and player.

Manu Tuilagi seems to have 'calmed down' somewhat after trying his impersonation of George Foreman on Chris Ashton. He's back in the England fold, and perhaps Clark will be in time.

[WhitecapTiger]

I do not condone any such ALLEGED antics, but do you all apply the same principles to the like of Julian White (thug of the highest order), Manu Tuilagi (Ashton punch speak for itself), and in the past Neil Back and Johnno who could mix it up with the best of them?

I will be the first to call for Hartley's head if the ALLEGATIONS are found to be true, but I think Tigers fans need to take their rose-tinted spectacles off, and look on their players in the same light as they look on those playing for other clubs.

No rose tinted specs here. If I had seen a Tigers player doing what it appeared Callum Clarke did I would expect it to be cited and looked into and I would be pretty damned ashamed. I felt this way when (as you mentioned it) Manu punched Ashton, there was no hiding place about that one, I think he got off lightly but that wasn't his fault, he was cited, had his chance to submit a defence (which iirc amounted to a guilty plea and contrition) and he was banned - again for what it's worth I think the eventual 5 weeks ban he got should've been 5 matches as 4 of the weeks were pretty meaningless, but then I think that should apply to ALL bans.

All I want is for the system to be equal and transparent, as I've said elsewhere I do not agree that the media should be drummed into action to influence a citing, the RFU bods should do that themselves, if they can't / don't / won't then they are, IMO, flawed (moreso than many already think they are) and a dangerous precedent will be set. I think there is more than enough reason for a citing and a hearing, whether there is enough evidence for a 'conviction' and a subsequent ban remains to be seen and is not up to us.

For what it's worth, and based on another lack of 'knowledge' of an incident, I think it's pretty poor the way that some are judging Hartley before he's had a chance to defend himself. It doesn't matter what his previous is (until such time that he MAY be found guilty and it should be then considered IMO) but it appears that he has been cited purely on the word of a pleyer. albeit with a bitemark, and the only corroboration that I have heard of is from DO'C, hardly impartial.

[West Haddon Saint]

Whitecap.....couldn't agree more. The system, as you say, should be equal and transparent. We cannot a hang a man before the incident is even investigated.

Let the RFU do it's thing, hopefully the truth will out, and any subsequent actions should be commensurate with their findings.

Some are far too quick to jump on the 'lynch mob' bandwagon (to mix metaphors?).

Let's all keep a balanced view of what players do, includng those in the teams we support. Sometimes it appears as all other players are guilty, except our own.

[Jeremy Anderson]

What we are all frustaed about is the lack of a citing after which the truth can be determined.
I have my own view from watching the incident a number of times and have no doubt of Clark's guilt but my call is for a citing.
I fear if nothing is done it will be a very stormy game when we go to Stains in a few weeks time.
I also do not see punching somebody when they are facing you as nearly as unsporting as hair pulling, biting, gouging and breaking of arms of defenceless players but others may not agree.

[4071]

The fact is that Hartly is an out an out thug and not the sort of character that should be playing international rugby. He is one of those guys who go out to deliberately hurt people and stir up trouble with his late tackles and close quarter skullduggery.

he cannot throw in when the pressure is on him and he has been our best player in recent years when they have played at WR especially when we bait him so unmercilessly, he just cannot cope.

As for his scrummaging, he is a one trick pony - he drives straight up (the old french trick) and then shouts he has popped his opponent - I can tell you any fool can pop his opponent doing that - it is dangerous , causes injury and generally starts a fight in the front row. Only an idiot ref is fooled (which is sadly sometimes the case), however most refs are getting wise to his stupid tricks - If I were the England management I would get rid of him - he is bad news altogether and he must definately NEVER play for the Lions that would be a discrace and an embarrassment.

Rather impressive to fit so much nonsense into a single post.

[APJones]

over the past few seasons 6 nations I have noticed that the Irish have been the worst offenders for sneaky 'dirty' play. In a poor defence of Hartley ' what was the Irish players finger doing anywhere near Hartleys mouth ?. Having said that Clark and Hartley have both been shown to deliberately go out of their way to delberately injure their opponents. Added to that did you see the Saints chairman on rugby club last week casting aspersions on Tigers by bringing up how he couldn't understand how Tigers could get so many good players within the salary cap and the chant of same old tigers always cheating. Maybe it was hype before the LV cup final , or maybe it is the current Saints philosophy of to try and bet Tigers any way they can.
Manus thumping last year was justified (and the yellow card) in my opinion but Manu does appear control over the red mist, Hartley hasn't.