Is it time to thank Cockers for his efforts? - Part 2

[Cardiff Tig]

hes been very consistent for a fair few games now, more than any other centre we have. and im not sure how you could blame your 13 for a poor performance when the guy playing 10 was shocking, there was little hope for anyone outside him on friday!

but your right, i wouldnt put MS in the england team, just that he should have been considered when you look at the possible alternatives that are out there. there arent many players playing better at 13 that are english. that may say more about lack of english talent at centre but thats another point entirely!

[Pete]

When this season's HC groups were announced, one fact should have stood out a mile to Cockers - it would be very difficult to win at Ulster and it would be very difficult to win at Clermont. Assuming it would be equally difficult for those two sides to win at Welford Road, it meant that these three teams would be likely to lose two matches each.

So to win through to the quarter finals, two things were imperative:

1. Pick up as many bonus points as possible - two off Aironi, plus both losing bonus points, and hopefully at least one other.

2. Ensure that the overall points difference between Tigers and each of the other two teams was positive ie if the teams finished the table equal on points, Tigers would be on top.

Unfortunately Tigers completely failed on all of these aspects (no bonus points at all so far, and a negative overall points difference with both Ulster and Clermont), and deservedly so. In contrast Clermont have so far been remarkably successful with no less than four bonus points.

So why have Tigers so completely failed?
I suggest the cause is an out of date style of play.

[Crumblies]

which other english outside centre has consistently performed this season then now manu is out? im in no way saying MS should be picked for england but he should have definately been considered to be part of the EPS, especially as the majority of other candidates play most of their rugby at 12.

Err lets see?
Off the top of my head:
Turner-Hall Quins
Trinder Gloucs
Matt Banahan
Dan Hipkiss
Also if Delon Armitage is not getting in at Full back

As I said thats just off the top of my head, but I'd pick anyone of them ahead of Smith at OC.

[Cardiff Tig]

turner-hall plays most of his rugby at 12, banahan and hipkiss have both been found wanting playing 13 at international level. as i said i dont think he should be in the england team but he deserved to be considered in the first place. i dont see why most people on the forum seem to have so much against smith! however, i would go with trinder personally as manu is out and see how he goes.

[Kinoulton]

Thinks on the field are as bad as they've been for quite a while.

But if the club sacks RC and brings in the next great white hope, then any player who's been here since around 2005 could find himself playing for his 6th coach already.

And what if the next man doesn't produce a style of rugby we don't approve of? Another coach, and another coach, and another coach?

We'll become like QPR. Not in debt, money to spend, but... 11 coaches in 207 games, in the relegation zone.

[The Boy Dave]

And what if the next man doesn't produce a style of rugby we don't approve of? Another coach, and another coach, and another coach?

Yes my thoughts were similar but I refuse to allow myself to be ruled by fear. At some point I should be noticing forward strides on the pitch. The signs aren't very apparent to me that this is happening. M.S being given the 13 jersey and lauded as England's savior by R.C whilst Manu is out is just another example of this. Tigers have Agulla playing like a demon and he can't get an opportunity to get more involved and what about the countless young men waiting for a decent chance. I simply do not get it and I am looking for reasons as to why this is the case. Unfortunately I can't come up with anything genuine to justify these kind of decisions. It smacks of favouritism, mediocre vision and utter contempt for the fans.

[kend]

i dont see why most people on the forum seem to have so much against smith!

Me neither - thought I'd just leave this here:

Kay, who played nearly 300 games for Tigers and was a member of England's 2003 World Cup-winning team, rates Smith highly.

He said: "He is a quality player. In terms of consistency he is right up there with the best, he always performs at the highest level.

"He doesn't have any dips in form, which is a strong characteristic. He is a huge part of Leicester.

"His finish against Northampton recently was as good as I've seen. I don't know how quick he is but whether they feel at international level there are quicker players around I'm not sure, but he can't be too far away."

[The Boy Dave]

Me neither - thought I'd just leave this here:

I wouldn't take a forwards word as the law when it comes to backs, Martin Johnson is a prime example of this!
Smith may well be a consistent player but a great player or a 13, no way. If you are happy with him at 13 then fine, I am not and you will not convert me. IMO he is consistent, consistently around avarage and he does well to take advantage of the players around him with the vision and skills that bring average players like Smith into games. It takes more than this in a key position of 13 to compete in the H.C.

[kend]

I wouldn't take a forwards word as the law when it comes to backs

Quite - so, in the spirit of mischief, I also leave this here:

Smith, 26, has had an outstanding first half of the season for Tigers, so much so that team-mate Ben Youngs declared him the best player in the Premiership.

Actually as far as the England question is concerned I'm in the ABBB camp - anybodybutbanahan!

[The Boy Dave]

Quite - so, in the spirit of mischief, I also leave this here:

Quote:

Smith, 26, has had an outstanding first half of the season for Tigers, so much so that team-mate Ben Youngs declared him the best player in the Premiership.

Actually as far as the England question is concerned I'm in the ABBB camp - anybodybutbanahan!

Yes I had a good laugh at B.Y comment. I didn't realise he had such a good sense of humour. He isn't such a mardy boy after all! Sorry couldn't help that, mischief!
Smith is obviously a good club man. He wouldn't have lasted so long otherwise but I never expected to unlock Ulster with him at 13 and that was a sad way to view the game. As a fan I wanted to be excited at the prospect of winning as much as losing!
Agree with you about Banahan. Crash, bang, wallop! That'll beat Sonny Bill Williams for sure, not. Get em in the ring!

[Isambard]

Wishful thinking here. It is long overdue and time for a fresh approach to Premiership and Heineken rugby. We have been shown up too many times this season.

[BJ.]

Why start a new thread on basically the same subject as this one?

[Isambard]

Why not?

[MurphysLaw]

[quote="The Boy Dave"][quote]And what if the next man doesn't produce a style of rugby we don't approve of? Another coach, and another coach, and another coach?
[/quote]
Yes my thoughts were similar but I refuse to allow myself to be ruled by fear. At some point I should be noticing forward strides on the pitch. The signs aren't very apparent to me that this is happening. M.S being given the 13 jersey and lauded as England's savior by R.C whilst Manu is out is just another example of this. Tigers have Agulla playing like a demon and he can't get an opportunity to get more involved and what about the countless young men waiting for a decent chance. I simply do not get it and I am looking for reasons as to why this is the case. Unfortunately I can't come up with anything genuine to justify these kind of decisions. It smacks of favouritism, mediocre vision and utter contempt for the fans.[/quote]

So exactly who, from the countless young men, would you have played at 13 to unlock the Ulster defence?

[TigerAlex]

Why not?

I have replied to you on this subject twice. You have not responded to either of my posts. I repeat again, would you be happy if Cockerill resigned immediately and as a result we finished the season outside the top 6?