Tigers vs Sale Sharks

[sapajo]

Dodgy legs have nothing to do with speed of thought or rugby thinking.

Harsh words me thinks, last season Ben never had any such issues indeed his speed upto and away from the breakdown was what amongst other aspects of his game propelled him into the England side. What really worries me is why he has these issues now,either its been coached in or out of him dependant upon your view,a complete loss of confidence/form or as I suspect he is carrying an injury.

[GS]

Ben is a talented instinctive player who can react to a situation and use it whilst most are just realising the possibilities. Unfortunately this sort of player needs confidence to use his instincts and at the moment this is missing. Whether it's his knee worrying him (especially in view of his predecessor Harry) or what I don't know.

I think he and Toby were told by the England coaches to think more about what they do rather than just react and this has muddied the waters as Ben, although a nice guy, isn't Einstein and the more he thinks the slower he gets. And then panic sets in and off goes another box kick.

With Young and Harrison we have enough cover to let Ben have a couple of weeks off to sort out his 'niggle' in his leg and get his head straight. In the grand scheme of things I'd then give him a couple of games in the A's to help him recover his form but as A Team games are like hen's teeth........

BTW, is it just me or have we just started to use the Sarries' rucking technique of building a trail of players bound behind the ruck to give as much distance between the other team and the SH?

A good win but during the first 15 - 20 it was looking like a bad day for Sale, another case of taking the foot off the gas again? That said Sale didn't give up and kept at it for the whole game.

[baz1664]

The referee had a shocker, the amount of times Sale killed the ball by laying all over it at the maul was a joke and the blocking for there second try was simple an embarrassing miss by the officials, it summed it up when the officials came plodding out after half time while all the players were ready to play.

Tigers played well in patches and should have been well clear by half time, the problems i see at the moment is the lack of invention in attacking positions and the lack of control around the ruck, cant count the amount of times we were turned over or lost control of the ball and was put on the back foot.

Excellent performances by the tank and Billy.

Lots to work on but onwards and upwards!!

[Crumblies]

Why is it referred to as Ben bashing when a comment is made about the poor quality of his box kicking. Are you saying that it was up to standard? He needs to improve this aspect of his game. It seems its ok for some of you to slag-off players like Matt Smith and he is often referred to as Cockers 'love-child' but woe betide anyone who says anything about Ben Youngs or Billy.

Because we really don't know what game you are watching! I have just watched the recording again. Yes Ben made a number of errant box kicks, yes his performance wasn't up to his best, but when you are a world class player that happens. He still managed to clean up a lot of 'rubbish' coming back from the line out and scrum, managed a couple of half-breaks and kept the Sale defence occupied round the fringes for the time he was on, for a man who looked as though he was operating on one leg, hardly woeful.

You keep mentioning Matt Smith, was he playing yesterday? in attack he was non-existent, one quick pass-on does not an international OC make. Yesterday Billy 12T's was head and shoulders above him IMHO, yet we'll see who Cockers decides to drop from the squad in the next couple of weeks.

[Broadstaff]

I think that we often get into a mindset of going into contact too much. Yesterday most of the time you simply knew there an offload or pass was never going to be considered - and yet when we did offload and pass a bit I thought we looked dangerous. Perhaps the conditions and the fear of giving away possession to a side that wanted to counter attack everything mitigated against keeping the ball alive a bit more? Even the excellent Thomas missed a glorious chance of a score when he made his great break and then crashed into contact and went to ground ... but if only he had just held the ball up for a second he had support steaming up on his left who would almost certainly have scored.

[Jay C]

Yes Ben made a number of errant box kicks, yes his performance wasn't up to his best, for a man who looked as though he was operating on one leg, hardly woeful.

Which is why - with 3 quality SHs in the squad, one of which was on the bench - he should have come off earlier....

You keep mentioning Matt Smith, was he playing yesterday? in attack he was non-existent, one quick pass-on does not an international OC make. Yesterday Billy 12T's was head and shoulders above him IMHO, yet we'll see who Cockers decides to drop from the squad in the next couple of weeks.

+1

[Smurphswillgetya]

Why is it referred to as Ben bashing when a comment is made about the poor quality of his box kicking. Are you saying that it was up to standard? He needs to improve this aspect of his game. It seems its ok for some of you to slag-off players like Matt Smith and he is often referred to as Cockers 'love-child' but woe betide anyone who says anything about Ben Youngs or Billy.

Because we really don't know what game you are watching! I have just watched the recording again. Yes Ben made a number of errant box kicks, yes his performance wasn't up to his best, but when you are a world class player that happens. He still managed to clean up a lot of 'rubbish' coming back from the line out and scrum, managed a couple of half-breaks and kept the Sale defence occupied round the fringes for the time he was on, for a man who looked as though he was operating on one leg, hardly woeful.

You keep mentioning Matt Smith, was he playing yesterday? in attack he was non-existent, one quick pass-on does not an international OC make. Yesterday Billy 12T's was head and shoulders above him IMHO, yet we'll see who Cockers decides to drop from the squad in the next couple of weeks.

At least I watch the games and make an honest statement of what I think, unlike some pompous people who seem to think they know best!. Also some people have their pet hates and loves and never give credit or critcise when it is warranted. Take a look at the team sheet and the video, yes Matt Smith was playing! He was part of the team that won and contributed to that win. BTW are you a queen, you seem to use the royal 'we' quite often!

[Crumblies]

At least I watch the games and make an honest statement of what I think, unlike some pompous people who seem to think they know best!. Also some people have their pet hates and loves and never give credit or critcise when it is warranted. Take a look at the team sheet and the video, yes Matt Smith was playing! He was part of the team that won and contributed to that win. BTW are you a queen, you seem to use the royal 'we' quite often!

Ouch, I think WE, sorry I, touched a nerve.

Yes you do make statements, which I don't object to. The trouble is you never give any indication that it is your opinion, to which you are entitled, and that people are entitled to theirs. What you have then said, or agreed to becomes accepted fact in your eyes, despite what anyone on here says to the contrary.

In my opinion, by his own very high standards Ben Youngs had a poor game yesterday. But having watched the recording, he was still more of an attacking threat than matt Smith who was virtually annonymous.

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

Having watched the rest of the game today, I was astounded by quite how bad the ref really was, a truley entertaining interpritation of the breakdown & offside laws, for once Cockers is entitled to a Ref Moan.

As for the game is it a Tactic to kick once it rains, I've seen thsi frequently with us, even more noticeable yeaterday when the opposition were able to handle the ball without any problems it the downpour whilst we hoofed it in the air.

Plus points: 12T, TTE, Agulla, hawkins & both 2nd Rows, Slater seems to have cut out giving away silly penalties whislt remaining "Edgy", whislt Kitchener showed why he was signed, he hasn't played that much Top Flight Rugby & is still learning, more impotantly they looked a good pairing.

Minus Points: The pointless kicking (another "O'Connorism" IMHO) & the appalling game management from Cockers yet again, great forward coach poor DOR, Youngs should of been taken off the moment he twinged at the start of the 2nd half. Alex T deserves to be dropped his laziness at times is shocking.

A wins a win but there was a point left on the pitch yesterday & one given to Sale, they might count come seasons end.

[mike]

Matt Smith has done really well this season - great improvement - but he was totally anonymous yesterday so I don't see the need to leap to his defence when someone states the obvious .Youngs should have been taken off if injured - it wasn't as if he was playing well - I hope someone tells Micky Young to get the ball out a bit quicker - that last ruck was almost Grindallesque .

[kend]

You keep mentioning Matt Smith, was he playing yesterday? in attack he was non-existent, one quick pass-on does not an international OC make. Yesterday Billy 12T's was head and shoulders above him IMHO, yet we'll see who Cockers decides to drop from the squad in the next couple of weeks.

Just watched the game again on premiership TV (slow day!). Bit harsh on Smith IMHO - carried the ball when he got it and made the most of the one opportunity he did get (in a very tight space) for AT's try. Conditions not ideal for outstanding wing play? In the mists of time I attended a coaching lecture given by Jim Greenwood; I recall him saying that, in some games, a winger might only touch the ball in attack twice, so the key thing is to make the most of the opportunities you do get. Wise words perhaps?

[Smurphswillgetya]

Yes you do make statements, which I don't object to. The trouble is you never give any indication that it is your opinion, to which you are entitled, and that people are entitled to theirs. What you have then said, or agreed to becomes accepted fact in your eyes, despite what anyone on here says to the contrary.

2012 is going to be a great year Crumblies. I actually agree with what you say for once! What annoys me is people take what they say as fact despite what anyone else says. Some people are quick to knock certain players whilst very forgiving of certain players. I have been referred as a WUM and am proud to say I will continue to take the opposite view when people bleat on about the same thing without any foundation (IMHO). For the record I thing BY is the best English S/H and quite rightly no1 at Tigers but there are aspects of his game that need improving.

Matt Smith has done really well this season - great improvement - but he was totally anonymous yesterday so I don't see the need to leap to his defence when someone states the obvious .Youngs should have been taken off if injured - it wasn't as if he was playing well - I hope someone tells Micky Young to get the ball out a bit quicker - that last ruck was almost Grindallesque .

I defended Matt Smith because there was no need to single him out in defence of the performance of BY. Whilst he did nothing flash he played his part in the game. He may not be international class but he is a very good club player who tries his best and rarely lets us down.