yellow_balaclava_hunter wrote:I agree that at no point should a representative of the club use abusive language towards officials.
However just to stamp this out and punish the individual is simply not enough and is missing the point.
There is a serious problem with the standard of refereeing in this country, it has been going downhill for several years now and the RFU have done nothing about it despite receiving numerous complaints. When referees are as poor as Barnes was today and the referee in the London Irish game then are we surprised by the response from Cockerill?
There needs to be a proper review of referees performances which is then available to the public, this review should include input from former players, referees, the RFU and the coaches of the two clubs involved.
Referees should be graded for each game that they play and this should be published in a league structure with the referee that is top at the end of the season being awarded the final.
Your post makes no sense. You say that no representative of the club should use foul language towards an official. But then you go on to say that we shouldnt be surprised at cockerills response because of the standard of the refereeing.
What Richard Cockerill chooses to let come out of his mouth is his choice and his control. He doesnt get a free pass to use foul language and abuse an official just because he doesnt agree with a referees performace.
Probably the game does need to deal with the issue of refeering.
But separately it needs to deal with yobs. The 2 issues are not linked.
You clearly do not understand human behaviour.
What people should do and what they end up doing aren't always the same. We are not robots.
The two issues are linked and both need to be addressed as both should not be happening.
There is no 'probably' about it. The behaviour of Cockerill was provoked by the indefensibly poor refereeing that we've had for some time now.
It is clear that this has boiled over for some time and Cockerill has lost his patience with it. He should not have done it and that needs to be addressed but so does the thing that provoked him to do it.
The refereeing is the same for all teams. There is not some anti Tigers conspiracy that Cockerill, and indeed yourself, seem to portray. Every single team has been on the end of poor refereeing. There is no way Tigers are some sort of exception.
Some head coaches accept it with frustration and reasonable comment, whilst others....Cockerill and Venter being the stand out duo...respond with aggression, foul mouths and a persecution complex.
At no point did I say that there was an 'anti Tigers conspiracy'.
I do not believe that Cockerill has claimed this either.
Once again people are human beings and not robots. This means that they sometimes behave in a way that they should not do when provoked. This also means that people behave differently.
Just because Cockerill et al should not react does not mean that we should turn a blind eye to the poor refereeing which is an institutional problem and has been getting poorer for years.
The referees are not going to improve unless measures are put in place and nor will Cockerill.
Excuse me. Where do I get a yellow balaclava from?
I asked Gavin Henson if they sold them at Matalan but he said they didn't because they messed his hair up.
The referees are not going to improve unless measures are put in place and nor will Cockerill
Can't we invite Wayne Barnes, or Ed Morrison or Brian Campsall to come to the club and explain to us how the referees prepare for games and how they continuously work to develop their game? It's not as if a ref just turns up on a Saturday and gets on with it - they have all week to prepare and I am sure they do. If we have any ideas of how they could use that time better, and therefore what they can do to become better referees, then that might be a good opportunity for us to express them to someone who has influence and will listen.
All this discussion is missing the underlying point, which was the same when Venter was involved last year. The locations of the coaches ( and now it seems officials) are badly chosen. The reason that coaches like Cockers and Venter are successful is because they are passionate etc: both their clubs getting to the final in 2 years is indicative of their worth (Venter may be gone but his ethos lives on). Put coaches like them where they can do their thing without upsetting others is the real answer.
For when the One Great Scorer comes to write against your name,
He marks - not that you won or lost - but how you played the Game."
DickyP wrote:All this discussion is missing the underlying point, which was the same when Venter was involved last year. The locations of the coaches ( and now it seems officials) are badly chosen. The reason that coaches like Cockers and Venter are successful is because they are passionate etc: both their clubs getting to the final in 2 years is indicative of their worth (Venter may be gone but his ethos lives on). Put coaches like them where they can do their thing without upsetting others is the real answer.
mightymouse wrote:As a very vocal member of the middle of the Crumbie terrace I am still reeling from the "Revelling in soccer fans supporting rugby.. in the crumbie terrace" remark
If being very vocal both individually and collectively is being like a "soccer fan" - then I will have to own up. I however have never seen any violent or intimidatory behaviour on the terrace and away fans are always welcomed - I have even brought some of them with me in the past. Maybe the more gentille elements of Saints fans think that chanting Tigers Tigers very loudly is "soccer like" whilst singing away in jolly fashion to "when the saints" is not! - I do not know it is all very baffling.
regarding the 2 incidents most talked about in the press and media -
Firstly Cockerill was very incensensed by the refereeeing last week and told them so after the game on the field - he oviously sees injustice and wants it dealing with - His complaints are justified - the coming in at the side and the general standard of refereeing at the breakdown is woeful but worse still it is inconsistant - we will not get peace until this issue is dealt with - his second complaint was about the late tackling and again he was right - there was a deliberate and sustained attack early in the game to intimidate Flood and it was not dealt with by Barnes - I believe this is what led to the boiling over later. Very poor officiating, failing to contrl the "temperature" of the game.
Interestingly as we are talking about bad language from coaches - when we pointed out his tactics to Grayson in their dugout and told him to keep his pet thug under control (Hartley) he turned round and called me an exceptionally rude word begining with W. Would I complain about an incident like that? No !
I was annoyed with them at the time and he was annoyed with me - so what ?
It is a brutal contact sport and yesterday was one of the most brutal and best I have seen for a long time .. I am sure Paul Grayson is a very nice chap and he got a bit over excited - big deal - But if Paul Ackford wants to write about something of that nature let him write about that. It sounds like he is offended very easily but then he was a policeman once upon a time which perhaps explains it.
Regarding Manu - Yes there was some big punches thrown and he probably deserved a red but I have seen worse and given the previous intimidation that was a starting ploy by saints and a the prior petulant shove on the head and neck by Ashton then he should not be wholly suprised by the response. One thing is certain, Ashton will not try that sort of nonsense on Manu again - indeed I would be suprised if anyone did.
What of course all this fuss takes away from and why the likes of Ackford, Barnes and co. and their sickening continuing Anti Leicester bias does not recognise was that was one hell of a game of rugby. Both teams fought like giants out there and whilst on paper Saints are probably the better team - on the day on that field in front of that crowd Tigers drove themselves further and harder and on the day eclipsed Saints with pure will. Anyone who cannot see that and and does not want to write about that knows nothing about what this sport is all about!
Spot on. I have to agree with every word
Life can be unpredictable, so eat your pudding first!
The sooner Coaches are put into "hospitality type" boxes to watch the match in and vent their fury at whatever, the better for all. Done at Murrayfield. Could save all significant aggravation. Alterantively, Cocahes will have to learn to contain thier rage. I am afraid a ban looks inevitable for Cockerill given the past warnings he has had.
I cannot see how people think he is intimidating the officials - if he is in the stand and shouting at Campsell who one assumes is the assesor then he can have no bearing on the game in hand. If however you mean he may influnence them in the future , then good they need influnencing - they need to get it right when it comes to the breakdown and especially dealing with deliberate late tackling "softening up tactics" that we had to witness.
If however it is bad language people are concerned then why are people not up in arms about the fact that Grayson called me the W. word - I'll tell you why because Grayson was not overheard by such a delicate flower as the mighty Paul Ackford, just by a few dozen people like me on the terrace who are not so easily offended, and therefore don't give a damn.
mightymouse wrote:I cannot see how people think he is intimidating the officials - if he is in the stand and shouting at Campsell who one assumes is the assesor then he can have no bearing on the game in hand. If however you mean he may influnence them in the future , then good they need influnencing - they need to get it right when it comes to the breakdown and especially dealing with deliberate late tackling "softening up tactics" that we had to witness.
If however it is bad language people are concerned then why are people not up in arms about the fact that Grayson called me the W. word - I'll tell you why because Grayson was not overheard by such a delicate flower as the mighty Paul Ackford, just by a few dozen people like me on the terrace who are not so easily offended, and therefore don't give a damn.
Case for defense rests.
Slap on wrist for Cockers. Ackford to do 300 hours community service. Grayson given life ban.
mightymouse wrote:If however it is bad language people are concerned then why are people not up in arms about the fact that Grayson called me the W. word - I'll tell you why because Grayson was not overheard by such a delicate flower as the mighty Paul Ackford, just by a few dozen people like me on the terrace who are not so easily offended, and therefore don't give a damn.
And because you are not really sensationalising it in the national press to 'whip up a frenzy' and get/retain people reading your column mightymouse. Mind you, if Grayson had called me a Wasp I think I'd have been cited by now!!
Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens.
Lessons need to be learnt from it, it's not the first time it's happened and unless things are changed within the stands and structure itself then it won't be the last time. Cockerill is known for his temper, illustrated by yesterday and last week, however I think Brace might need to have a quiet word in his ear about how to conduct himself and to remember where he is. Not only is he in full view of the referee assessor but in full view of the fans, and young children in paticular. Maybe Pat Howard could have a word, a man who was passionate about Leicester but managed to keep it inside?
Success only comes before work in the dictionary.
"Rugby is a hooligans game played by gentlemen." Winston Churchill
Problem is where? With the Crumbie stand as it is now there is nowhere to sit him where he won't cause offence with such outbursts. Therefore this is something that needs to be carefully considered during the planning and building of the new stand IMHO.
Success only comes before work in the dictionary.
"Rugby is a hooligans game played by gentlemen." Winston Churchill
Ben the Tiger wrote:Problem is where? With the Crumbie stand as it is now there is nowhere to sit him where he won't cause offence with such outbursts. Therefore this is something that needs to be carefully considered during the planning and building of the new stand IMHO.
With respect cobblers. Sit him in the security box. Or the TV box. Or in one of the "hospitality" boxes in the Goldsmiths Stand. Or in the "posh" bit of the Clubhouse Stand. Or on the top deck of the Caterpillar. Or next to me on the back row of the Crumbie - I doubt that we will be offended by his language and if we are we will tell him.
Just nowhere near the Refs Assessor and Paul Ackford.
