Scrums, Refs, Brian Moore and all that.

[Kinoulton]

I know Brian can be an eejit when he chooses to be, but I thought his comments on the refereeing of the scrums yesterday were very apt.

We all love the scrums as a direct contest of 8 v 8 requiring muscle and technique, but it's in danger of becoming a bore, with few proper scrums and far too many time wasting re-sets.

From his position in the commentary box, Brian was able to point out numerous cases of people not binding, or not binding correctly, or committing other sins, none of which seemed to alarm the ref, let alone the forever impotent "touch judges" who feel their only job is to take a guess at where the ball goes out after a long kick.

Clearly we need:
1) At least one official who knows about scrums;
2) One official on one side of the scrum and another on t'other side to see what shenanigans are going on.

[Big Dai]

Agreed

[Anthony]

I couldn't agree more with you, Moore was spot on yesterday.
Why the referee or TJ's can't see this when only a few feet away I don't know.

As for Care feeding the scrum, it was so obviously into the second row that scrums became a bit of a joke. The IRB needs to look at the policies open to the referee and start penalising according to the rule book.

[Mr_Ben]

couldn't hear the commentary in the pub I was watching the game in but spotted plenty of failing to bind etc at scrums.

In terms of IRB dealing with crooked feeds, I've given up hope of this ever being sorted as Paddy O'Brien has said plenty in the past about dealing with it and nothing has changed. IMO the only thing that will work is removing those referee's who allow it from the International Panel for 2 or 3 games. Only problem with that is there then won't be any ref's left available for the next set of matches.

[parvacat]

Couldn't the ref be linked with someone who actually understood the scrum. yesterday was a farce. Even Payne looked reasonable!

[kingol22]

My understanding is that the tj are only allowed to intervene for foul play (punch, stamp, gouge etc) at least it is at my level i would presume it is the same at pro level. and offenses at the scrum are technical offenses so tj can not intervene

[Yorkshire man]

Can you scrum experts help me with an incident from this afternoons Scotland France game. French pack generally on top. First half scrum on Scots five metre. Scots front row goes up, ref blows for pen immediately. If he had let the advantage run the French would have probably pushed on and scored. Second half, mid field scrum, up goes the Scots again, ref indicates penalty, allows the French to push on for 10/15 metres and then blows.

If you are not confused, I am. Other then the ref being Welsh, am I missing something.

[Stu_F]

My understanding is that the ref decides what additional (to foul play) help he wants from touchjudges. Don't how many times they've asked for help on scrummaging.

For example, Ireland seemed to be 'pulling back' in the scrums to get free kicks for 'early pushes'

[Kinoulton]

The refs need to have a chinwag with each other.

Lots of forwards don't bind properly.

The 6 & 7s are up like inquisitive meerkats as soon as the ball is fed in, even though the scrum is still in progress.

The feeding into the scrum is laughable.

And millions of people at home can see the whole bluddy mess because the cameras are pointing straight at it and the likes of Mr Moore are pointing it out. If the refs don't act soon, they're going to look like complete jessies.

[Bill W (2)]

The refs need to have a chinwag with each other.

If the refs don't act soon, they're going to look like complete jessies.

Respectfully suggest they already do.

[Bill W (2)]

Can you scrum experts help me with an incident from this afternoons Scotland France game. French pack generally on top. First half scrum on Scots five metre. Scots front row goes up, ref blows for pen immediately. If he had let the advantage run the French would have probably pushed on and scored. Second half, mid field scrum, up goes the Scots again, ref indicates penalty, allows the French to push on for 10/15 metres and then blows.

If you are not confused, I am. Other then the ref being Welsh, am I missing something.

Farbeit from me to defend Mr. Owens.

However, firstly he must act to avoid injury.

Secondly, if the standing up stopped the scrum advancing he could judge no advantage was likely to accrue (as I believe it did in the first instance). In the second instance you quote he actually stuck his arm up, went to blow his whistle, noticed the French were advancing stuck his arm out and the finally blew his whistle 10/15 metres down the park.

And as you say he is Welsh.

[Tiggersarewonderfulthings]

Can you scrum experts help me with an incident from this afternoons Scotland France game. French pack generally on top. First half scrum on Scots five metre. Scots front row goes up, ref blows for pen immediately. If he had let the advantage run the French would have probably pushed on and scored. Second half, mid field scrum, up goes the Scots again, ref indicates penalty, allows the French to push on for 10/15 metres and then blows.

If you are not confused, I am. Other then the ref being Welsh, am I missing something.

Farbeit from me to defend Mr. Owens.

However, firstly he must act to avoid injury.

Secondly, if the standing up stopped the scrum advancing he could judge no advantage was likely to accrue (as I believe it did in the first instance). In the second instance you quote he actually stuck his arm up, went to blow his whistle, noticed the French were advancing stuck his arm out and the finally blew his whistle 10/15 metres down the park.

And as you say he is Welsh.

You and the Yorkie need to expand on this, Bill. Are Welsh referees known for their indecision on scrums? I've not seen any newspaper reports suggesting this. Perhaps you could provide a link to them?

I know it's not a crass generalisation about the referee's nationality, because I'm sure that both you and the fellow above are far too intelligent to come out with something so idiotic, so if you could just point me in the direction of the relevant article, please?

Thanks.

[Bill W (2)]

If you are not confused, I am. Other then the ref being Welsh, am I missing something.

Farbeit from me to defend Mr. Owens.

However, firstly he must act to avoid injury.

Secondly, if the standing up stopped the scrum advancing he could judge no advantage was likely to accrue (as I believe it did in the first instance). In the second instance you quote he actually stuck his arm up, went to blow his whistle, noticed the French were advancing stuck his arm out and the finally blew his whistle 10/15 metres down the park.

And as you say he is Welsh.

You and the Yorkie need to expand on this, Bill. Are Welsh referees known for their indecision on scrums? I've not seen any newspaper reports suggesting this. Perhaps you could provide a link to them?



Thanks.

In my case merely poking slight fun at the comment "other than the ref being Welsh" having provided what I thought was a reasonable explanation for Mr. Owens' actions.

[Tiggersarewonderfulthings]

In my case merely poking slight fun at the comment "other than the ref being Welsh" having provided what I thought was a reasonable explanation for Mr. Owens' actions.

Footwork that James Hook would be proud of there, Bill. Well done.

I await the Yorkshire correspondent's reply with bated breath.