Sixteen men on pitch

[Bill W (2)]

It was blatant gamesmanship or an ERC error.

I very much doubt ERC will admit to an error.

I also very much doubt they will deduct points from Ospreys.

Much more likely (IMHO) is a sizeable fine. Shall we say £100,000?

[No8]

A mild warning that any posts making this into an anti-Welsh/anti-English slanging match will result in said posts being removed. Everyone should please have respect for other users and for their right to their opinion.

Having said that, finally some justice - you are a newbie here, and as such I give you the benefit of the doubt but your posts are far from the standard of respect for others which is expected on this forum. Please keep the tone civil and respectful in future posts or risk removal of posts and a ban.

Banter is acceptable, rudeness and bringing nationalistic insults into it are not.

Well said Rizzo - we're not football supporters!!

[Simmo]

ERC have already stated that the result cannot be changed.
As has happended a number of times this season I suspect the Ref (Alan Lewis) will be reprimanded for inadequate control of the game and not being fully aware of the rules.

[Snorbins]

I agree Bill that ERC will not take responsibilty for their ineffectual policing of the game. That said 100k fine would be reduced on appeal to the cost of going over the bridge.
Spreys won so thats that for this season, will they go on to greater glory? Nah!

[GT1]

How is it that 4 officials & ref assesser dont know the rules?
Suspend all of them!!!!

[Big Dai]

How is it that 4 officials & ref assesser dont know the rules?
Suspend all of them!!!!

By the neck until dead!

[GT1]

You run a tuff school down there Dai !!!!!
Just keep them all away from the big games.

[Tiger_in_Birmingham]

I think attention at this point should be drawn to Tommy Bowe.

According to the commentary I was listening to he appeared to be the only person on the pitch who was initially aware of Ospreys having 16 men and he was calling for someone to get off the pitch.

If blame is to be appointed it falls purely at the 4th official. Either they did get a note and didn't inform the ref or they didn't prevent the player from going onto the pitch without having been given a note.

[AidanMcDowell]

And a message to you 'finally some justice' - look at the comments below from Richard Cockerill. THAT'S what makes us proud to be Tigers supporters. We know when we're second best and have the maturity to admit it. No true sports fan would have it any other way.




[quote="Smudge"]TIGERS HAVE APPEALED.
Leicester have lodged an official protest with tournament chiefs after their Heineken Cup exit was overshadowed by a 16th player blunder at the Liberty Stadium.

Tigers' 17-12 Pool Three defeat against the Ospreys meant they crashed out of Europe behind group winners Clermont Auvergne and the Welsh side, who both progress into this season's quarter-finals.

But the Ospreys briefly had 16 players on the pitch when their Wales and Lions full-back Lee Byrne went back on after initially going off nursing a bloodied foot.

Chaos ensued on the touchline while referee Alan Lewis rectified the situation, but not before the Ospreys had played for about a minute with 16 players.

Leicester chief executive Peter Wheeler and chairman Peter Tom confirmed a complaint had been made to European Rugby Cup, although it is understood tournament rules mean the result of the match cannot be affected.

England were fined a five-figure sum during the 2003 World Cup when Dan Luger briefly appeared as a 16th player during their group victory over Samoa in Melbourne.

And that would be the likely punishment for the Ospreys - as opposed to any points deduction - if ERC rule against them.

During Byrne's second-half appearance as a 16th player he was involved in helping to thwart a menacing Leicester attack sparked by their scrum-half Ben Youngs.

Wheeler said: "During a significant part of the game, the Ospreys had 16 players on the pitch, and he was involved in a break by Ben Youngs being stopped from developing.

"We think the interference of the 16th man was significant - you are only entitled to have 15 players on the pitch.

"We think it affected the outcome of the game. The players put their heart and soul into it out there, and they deserve to be treated fairly."

Referee Lewis could be seen berating an Ospreys touchline official when the matter was brought to his attention.

Tom added: "A serious error has been made. We are 12 years or so into the professional game, and it is time administrative procedures were sorted out.

"There has been a significant mistake that could be said to have had an impact on the game.

"People who administer the game have to make sure it doesn't happen again."

Both Leicester coach Richard Cockerill and his Ospreys counterpart Scott Johnson moved to play down the incident.

Cockerill preferred to concentrate on the rugby after seeing his team bow out after being undone by a Tommy Bowe try and 12 points from the boot of Ospreys fly-half Dan Biggar.

"I am sure they (Ospreys) didn't do it purposely," he said, reflecting on the 16th player episode.

"I don't think it had a bearing on the result.

"We were beaten fair and square. I am a lover of the game, and I am sure it was a mistake by somebody.

"We are out of the tournament. We have to go back, dust ourselves off and cope with the adversity of losing.

"It was a good contest, but someone has got to lose, and it was us today. Sometimes you get the luck, sometimes you don't.

"Ospreys are a good side with quality throughout. They've got the personnel to win the tournament, but there are some good teams left and Clermont would probably be my favourites."

While Leicester bow out, the Ospreys seemingly march on, although they could clearly do without any ERC investigation that will follow Leicester's complaint.

Johnson said: "This is one for the officials. They can work it out.

"There was a call for Lee Byrne to come on and 'X' to come off - that was the instruction.

"Byrne came off as a blood bin, and maybe that's where the confusion was. You just give instructions as a coach."

As for the victory, Johnson added: "We are glad to get out of this group. There is a great history in sport of sides being successful who come out of tough pools.

"The defence in the last 15 minutes was as tough as anything you would get in international rugby.

"The last two weeks (Ospreys have played Leicester and Clermont) have been of Test match intensity."[/quote]

[GT1]

Yes but once Lewis had stopped the game he had to restart with a pen to us. Surely one of the four officials should have known this.

[Bill W (2)]

I think attention at this point should be drawn to Tommy Bowe.

According to the commentary I was listening to he appeared to be the only person on the pitch who was initially aware of Ospreys having 16 men and he was calling for someone to get off the pitch.

.

The someone being not him? Who then interfered with play and prevented what might probably have been a try?

Hmmm.

[me2]

Watching the game on TV I saw the ref shouting at an Osprey official "you should have told the 4th official". The Osprey official replies "I did". Alan Lewis then replies "you didn't". I would suggest that the Osprey official knows better than Alan Lewis what she did or didn't do, after all he should be watching play not keeping an eye on the touchline. Interestingly there was another ERC official in view (possibly the 4th official) who didn't say a word when this was going on. Was keeping his own counsel as he had make a mistake?

It's possible he assumed Parker who replaced Byrne as a blood replacement was coming off and mixed messages were sent on as a result. I'll wait until we know for sure what happened before making a judgement. Though in my opinion this fuss just detracts from what was a fantastic game, worthy of a final and the best team on the day won.

Another day and it may be a different result.

Actually, I would assume that Lewis knows perfectly well what was or wasn't said as all replacements have to be notified to the referee (via one of the other officials) and he was not notified that Byrne was returning to the field.

The officials are all miked up and therefore, if the AR/4th Official didn't tell Lewis that Byrne was returning to the field, he shouldn't have come on.

Whether the Ospreys official "says" she told the 4th Official matters not. She has to get his approval before the player can go back on. Shouting at him that Byrne is running on is not sufficient.

Ospreys didn't follow correct protocol & were therefore the ones at fault.


However, nothing can (or should) be done about the incident once the game is over other than a fine or similar.

The match result, match points & pool standings should (and will) remain unchanged.

[taffmerthyr]

"Whether the Ospreys official "says" she told the 4th Official matters not. She has to get his approval before the player can go back on. Shouting at him that Byrne is running on is not sufficient.
Ospreys didn't follow correct protocol & were therefore the ones at fault."

Do you know this for a fact?
How do you know the 4th official, standing there not saying a word, wasn't the one who made the mistake?

[welshy3]

And a message to you 'finally some justice' - look at the comments below from Richard Cockerill. THAT'S what makes us proud to be Tigers supporters. We know when we're second best and have the maturity to admit it. No true sports fan would have it any other way.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that Leicester reported the ospreys - which to be fair is pretty un-tigerish behaviour..you could have made a proper meal out of not doing that - (a we are tigers we don't do that sort of thing type meal) but you did - soooo whatever cockerill says is irrelevant really. The records show that Leicester reported them - after a loss - one can only assume - to try to cause them as much damage as possible.

Not very sporting.

[Bill W (2)]

You seem to be ignoring the fact that Leicester reported the ospreys .

Tigers did not report the Ospreys. The referee reported the Ospreys. Tigers merely referred the matter to ERC:

Tom added: "A serious error has been made. We are 12 years or so into the professional game, and it is time administrative procedures were sorted out.

"There has been a significant mistake that could be said to have had an impact on the game.

"People who administer the game have to make sure it doesn't happen again."

This is not the first time ERC Procedures have been found wanting.