Dean's Gone!

[London Tiger]

I don't quite see why Danny Care should face any sort of discipline - he didn't do anything wrong himself, aside from writing an ill advised blog. Surely someone knew what was happening as he was warming up, so he should be sacked as well. I'm guessing most of the bench players will have known. Probably most of the squad. Why not just ban the team from ever playing rugby as a club???

Personally, I'd even debate whether the medical staff should be punished. If your boss, comes up to you and tells you a player is going to go down with a 'blood injury' and you should treat it as such, what are you meant to do? Tell him to get lost and you'll tell the press? If you did that, the player wouldn't have done it, therefore no evidence against the boss and you're out of a job.

[bluntiger]

I don't quite see why Danny Care should face any sort of discipline - he didn't do anything wrong himself, aside from writing an ill advised blog. Surely someone knew what was happening as he was warming up, so he should be sacked as well. I'm guessing most of the bench players will have known. Probably most of the squad. Why not just ban the team from ever playing rugby as a club???

Personally, I'd even debate whether the medical staff should be punished. If your boss, comes up to you and tells you a player is going to go down with a 'blood injury' and you should treat it as such, what are you meant to do? Tell him to get lost and you'll tell the press? If you did that, the player wouldn't have done it, therefore no evidence against the boss and you're out of a job.

There is never a valid defence along the line of "My boss told me to cheat so I did". They should have shown some character and declined to cheat and if they were sacked, they would have every reason to sue for constructive dismissal.

As a doctor, you surely have to have integrity and declaring a blood injury that you know has been faked calls that integrity into question.

They have to deal out a serious punishment. Imagine if that drop-goal attempt has been successful and Leinster were knocked out! IMO they will be banned from all European competition.

[London Tiger]

There is never a valid defence along the line of "My boss told me to cheat so I did". They should have shown some character and declined to cheat and if they were sacked, they would have every reason to sue for constructive dismissal.

As a doctor, you surely have to have integrity and declaring a blood injury that you know has been faked calls that integrity into question.

They have to deal out a serious punishment. Imagine if that drop-goal attempt has been successful and Leinster were knocked out! IMO they will be banned from all European competition.

You've forgotten about your claims for Danny Care to be shown the door then??

At no point am I denying that it was cheating. However, did it endanger another player? No. Burger, Parisse et al get punishment's measured in weeks for deliberately trying to hurt an opposition player.

As the punishment stands, Quins have been punished for the independant actions of their player. This is a very dangerous punishment as surely South Africa should have been punished for Burgers use of the fingers? We should have been dealt with very harshly last summer for Rabeni's ignoring his ban.

To suggest simply because somebody is a doctor that they have a higher moral code than others is a little simplistic, don't you think? They are human, and in the heat of the moment can act in a human way. I'd love to say for sure that I'd have taken the moral high ground if I'd have been in that situation, but I wouldn't like to say either way.

[Suz]

They have to deal out a serious punishment. Imagine if that drop-goal attempt has been successful and Leinster were knocked out! IMO they will be banned from all European competition.

If they are indeed banned from all European competitions, how does that work for the ECC? Wasp would get promoted to the HC (this seems the most likely end result, if Quins are thrown out), then one of the ECC groups is missing a team. Should Quins be allowed to play in the ECC? If not where should the other team come from - give Bristol a go?
Thoughts anyone? As it gets more complicated the more you think about it!

[Bill W]

If they are indeed banned from all European competitions, how does that work for the ECC? Wasp would get promoted to the HC (this seems the most likely end result, if Quins are thrown out), then one of the ECC groups is missing a team. Should Quins be allowed to play in the ECC? If not where should the other team come from - give Bristol a go?
Thoughts anyone? As it gets more complicated the more you think about it!

It doesn't work. Which is why it will not happen.

They can ban players and club officials (not only from European competition but from all competitions unless their name is Tincu)

[Bill W]

Glaws forum convinced DR heading in their direction.

[London Tiger]

http://tinyurl.com/koj92p

interesting development......

blunttiger - apology to Danny Care perhaps?

[Pete]

I think the whole episode has been blown out of all proportion. Teams that have cheated by taking off front row forwards to force passive scrums, thus denying the opposing team of their often great advantage in the scrum, is a much worse offence.

The real culprit in all this is the rules. If substituted players were automatically allowed to return to the field of play, there would be no problem. It would then be up to the coach to decide which 15 players would be on the pitch at any time. However, if a club could not provide three suitable front row forwards because of inadequate back-up cover, then they should not be allowed a substitute on that occasion. The team on the pitch would always be composed of up to three front row forwards plus no more than 12 others.

[Bill W]

Everyone, particularly the Press, are getting far too excited over this IMHO.

Three month (backdated) ban for Williams, Deano, Doctor and Physio.

Thank you and good morning.

Which is what the DP should have done in the first place.

Silly. Silly. Silly.

[nottslad]

Agree with Bill W on this, everybody getting carried away, cheating rightly or wrongly has gone on for years,if you get caught face the punishment.Is it really any diffrent from the hand of Neil BACK!!! Euro cup final last few minutes won the game!!!!! he did not get a 12 month ban or the club fined or coach (DR) get sacked!!!
its the rules that are the main problem,players at evry level will cheat to gain an advantage. rolling subs may be the answer, however the fact is clubs/players cheat to gain advanatge, I just feel sorry for Williams for basically getting all the grief, when I alledge he was following orders from a 6ft 4 20 stone head coach. time to give it a rest i think.

[westy154]

everybody getting carried away, cheating rightly or wrongly has gone on for years.

Yup, and I'd be prepared to say that this was in no way the first fake blood capsule that was ever smuggled on to a rugby pitch.

[g]

If this is the case then you could say tigers cheated by replacing Dan Hipkiss with Dupuy who had already been replaced at the time, so he could come back on and kick in the penalty shoot out.


Whose to say that Hipkiss had a genuine cut because I didn't see any blood and if it was an old wound it could easily have been opened up.


Strange how tigers haven't been investigated yet Quins were. IMO what tigers did is no different to what Quins did.

[Bill W]

The wink! Do not forget the wink!

[westy154]

Whose to say that Hipkiss had a genuine cut because I didn't see any blood and if it was an old wound it could easily have been opened up.

I recall as Danny H went off the referee, no doubt with thoughts of the harlequins incident fresh in his mind, went over to the player and doctor to demand to know the reason why he was being replaced. If memory serves, the ref then inspected the cut and was satisfied that it was genuine. So unless the wound was opened up deliberatley, which no TV cameras to my knowledge have shown, I think we can safely answer the question, "Who is to say that Hipkiss had a genuine cut?" with "the match referee".

[westy154]

Also, going slightly off topic here, let's not forget that when Nick Evans looked came back on he did approximately :censored: all. And Harlequins lost the game.

It's wrong and they need to be punished, and punished harshly IMO, but their deception didn't alter the course of the tournament or the game; the victors of that game went on to win the competition.