Lions Squad

[upthecats]

POC as captain? Who stepped forward for Ireland when we needed it? BOD and he even scored two trys from close range out of rucks!! even when he captains munster he can't make a decision without ROG.

I think he got the job because he is probably the only player guaranteed his place. And Geech likes a Captain to be able to look down on his opposition at the coin toss!!!?

Alan Quinlan over Croft? Thought Croft was ideally suited for the high altitude hard grounds.

The only other thing to think is he has his Test team in mind and picked a second string that will have some experieced heads and he hopes the midweek team will help to build some early momentum. Which the Test team can feed off.

ROG at fly half, he may not have much of a break but he does know how to get a back line running, Munster ran in a couple against ospreys, also he did "make" the two tries against Wales.

Luke fitzgerald and Kearney have a lot to prove, Kearney wasn't great in 6N, he still has a lot to learn about coming into a backline (see G Murphy for this), and his kicking is not great either at the moment.

Who thinks Moyne is in because of Richards recent rant about geech?

Horan left out because he is not the greatest scrummager

it now depends on how they gel together and deal with the hostile environment. That said 3 - 0 home win would be hard to bet against.

[upthecats]

I still dont understand who someone with motm after motm after motm in BIG games (internationals as well as club games) fails to make the squad?

Its akin to Ronaldo not being picked for Portugal, or Aryton Senna not being picked for 'motorsport hall of fame'.

I think he paid the price for not being able to play against Ireland this year and show his stuff against the Irish Back row.

[Mr P]

I havent ploughed through all the posts, so forgive me if this has been mentioned already. Whilst I laughed at a number of the selections, the funniest part of the squad announcements was the subtitles. i had the TV on at work, on mute, so settled for subtitles. Some of the names were priceless, and i suspect some of the players in question now have new tour names;

Chief Earls
Dollar Cut O'Callaghan
Jane Nee Heaslip

Having recovered from the tittering of the above. Some "interesting" selections to say the least. With 2 kicking 10's, it is clear that the game plan is tactical position first, with a conservative approach in attack.

I am one of Worsley's biggest critics in the past, but his selection is clearly based on the Wales game. Tackle, tackle, tackle, and when you are blowing out of your ar*e , tackle some more!

Vickery, no comment to make that would avoid the attention of the mods!!

Shawsy, who would of thought it, 12 yrs on from his last SA tour? Do you think Keith wood will be air-freighting Shawsy's kangaroo court outfit and hair gel. (Those who have seen Living with Lions will understand!!)

Croft, extremely unlucky to miss out, however the selection is clearly defensive, and bulky, not Crofts game. Next timeCrofty!!

Shane Williams has had a poor season, certainly picked on reputation, not form.

3 International skippers left out. Borthwick, right decision, Jones, lacking form so correct again, Blair unlucky for sure.

Whilst I applaud Geechs for his past Lions success, he has got a tough job on his hands this time, and nobody to blame for the selection!!

I will leave it at that for now.

[masopa]

I think what this debate highlights is - unfortunately - the paucity of real world-quality class available.

There were relatively few "nailed on" players - a few Irish, a few Welsh, perhaps one or two English but aside from that the vast majority are good players rather than great (or great ones who are woefully out of form).

At the moment, I'd include the likes of Croft and Armitage in that - both of whom have missed out - that whilst they are nailed on for England, there is a lot of competition for their places. And for Tom, using his skills to the full requires a certain type of playing style and we don't know whether that's what Geech & co are intending.

The good English players for me who've made the cut would include: Sheridan, Mears, Ellis, Flutey, Monye, Worsley - they've got through because they're very slightly better than the other options (or play the style required). The weaker English players - Vickery & Shaw, for example - have got in because of the lack of any other real option.

I personally would have Armitage and Croft in as well, but there will invariably be injuries and a few players will still make it over. Whilst I wouldn't wish injury on any of the named players, it's still possible they will make it over, perhaps also for a few others - Flood, Hipkiss, Vesty, White...

[dailywaffle]

Just on Croft. Apparently its been reported that, according to Gatland, he was the unlucky 38th man and was desperately close to being selected.

Given the rate of attrition in the back row its very likely he'll be out there at some stage.

[Tircoeds]

I think what this debate highlights is - unfortunately - the paucity of real world-quality class available.

There were relatively few "nailed on" players - a few Irish, a few Welsh, perhaps one or two English but aside from that the vast majority are good players rather than great (or great ones who are woefully out of form).

The good English players .... - they've got through because they're very slightly better than the other options (or play the style required).

Agreed, especially regarding the style of play ....

[penfold]

I've a huge amount of respect for Geech as a coach, I actually think he's probably the best in the World, so I'll trust in the squad he's selected, even if it does raise my eyebrows a bit. I seem to remember him taking some unheralded Tigers on the plane last time and those boys doing a great job, so he can't be all bad! I can't believe ANYONE sees worth in Simon Shaw, but I must be blind, there must be some reason he's liked if he continues to get picked for England and now the Lions.

Well done to Harry. I think had he not had that injury, he'd be a cast iron test 9. Despite since his comeback not having reached the level he looked as if he was going to, I still think he'll contest the shirt strongly.

Poor old Tom Croft, what does he have to do?

I have to admit it, much as I'd sell him, boy does that back row group cry out for a fit and firing Lewis Moody, huh? I think all of this grunt and power selecting speaks volumes for the lack of sparkle at 10, whichever of ROG or Jones gets the nod, it's boot first, 7 looking after the channel second. Frustrating Hook hasn't come on like I thought he might.

Anyway, go Lions!

[mol2]

When was this selection made - last year, 5 years ago or longer?

Did they watch the 6N?

I'm not suggesting England should have had more players in the squad (They showed enough as individuals to suggest thet next year we should expect much more) but those they have selected leave me confused - even Harry who is still short of his pre injury form (perhaps the 3rd best FH at Tigers on current form) let alone the assorted Wasps geriatrics! only Flutey merits selection.

Delon Armitage was the star player of the 6N yet no place!

Assorted Wales front rowers? No comment.

3:0 to SA who aren't a stellar side.

[TigrisLeicesteris]

I think the saying is "to prepare for success you must first prepare for failure"
well with the contingent of Stingless Wasps these Lions are looking even more Toothless against the Boks.

Yet another tour I have looked forward to but can't help feel Geech has gone with club loyalties and is very nearsighted, I know he likes physicality, but is it worth it, especially Vickery who is way past his best, and can't take the poace anymore.

Name: Geech
Crime: Leaving Crofty out the Lions Party (This fella bites and has claws to boot)

[westy154]

Given the rate of attrition in the back row its very likely he'll be out there at some stage.

It would actually be very interesting to see their list of back ups. There are always a lot of injuries on a tour and you never know, he could still end up out there and even in the test team.

[Tiger_in_Birmingham]

It probably reflect the quality of the leagues that all these players participate in !

You Tigers fans are just sooo jealous !

Ok, given a selection based on current availability (i.e. not injured) and form, who, Ellis and Croft (I'll take him as a given) apart, should have been selected from the Tigers ?

Ellis going is not indicitive of his form (he's not so great at the moment) but the inadequecies of other SHs. They all seem to spend too much time waving their arms in the air asking the ref for a penalty.

Smurph could have had a shout but the talent at fullback is as good as the back row at the moment.

Surprised they haven't considered White at prop, he's on phenominal form at the moment, devistating in the scrum and not a lot of other talent to compete with in the front row (final game in the 6N for A Jones aside).

Considering the form of Flood in the latter half of the 6N he stood a chance because of his 10/12 versatility - compounded by the injury to Henson that really leaves only Flutey at inside centre who is playing well.

Realistly I expected Croft to be starting and the others maybe going for the midweek/bench, but none of them a certainty for even that.

I am one of Worsley's biggest critics in the past, but his selection is clearly based on the Wales game. Tackle, tackle, tackle, and when you are blowing out of your ar*e , tackle some more!

Worsley's putting in 100 tackles on his own.
M Williams mastering in the dark arts.
Powell being smashed backwards everytime he goes into contact.

Powell deserves his place for his man of the match performance against SA in the autumn... If he can recreate that the lions will be laughing. If they try to do a worsley on him..then geech (and hopefuly gatlanf etc) will have had plenty of time to use this to the advantage of the lions.

An inspired selection if you ask me.

the most overhyped player in the 6N other than Vickery - was shown to be a 1 trick horse and got smashed back constantly

[WiggoTiger]

Gatland says "Tom was very, very close".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_u ... 011224.stm

Sadly though not close enough!!!!!

[tigerben]

Given the rate of attrition in the back row its very likely he'll be out there at some stage.

It would actually be very interesting to see their list of back ups. There are always a lot of injuries on a tour and you never know, he could still end up out there and even in the test team.

Ala Cozza in 2001,

He flew out to replace Richard Hill (or it might have been dayglo) and if memory serves me correctly he started the final 2 tests