Rob Andrew Blames 2003 Coaching Staff for Failings

[TTRITH]

http://tinyurl.com/6zdw72

Seeing as he is Director of Elite Rugby is this another case of passing off the blame?

[Dave Angel]

Not at all.

This is in fact pretty much what I have been saying for the last 5 years!


SCW & his team built a side to win the 2003 RWC. Most of them were at the very end of their careers & there were very few young players developed in the years before 2003 with the intention of replacing the old guard.

Older, established players were played at every available opportunity at the expense of young, rising talent in order to make sure the established side worked as a unit. Few youngsters were given a decent opportunity to play for England in this period ahich meant that when the inevitable happened & the old guard retired en masse after the 2003 victory there was nobody left in a position to replace them!

Much of the 2003 RWC winning side retired within months of the end of the tournament & by the 2005 6N there were only 3 of the starters from the 2003 Final in the side for the opening 6N game.


SCW never made plans for the new England side after the 2003 RWC even though it was obvious to all that most of that side were going to retire after the final (win or lose). Personally I feel that is why he left the England job when he did. Not because he'd done everything that he wanted to do, but because he realised that his lack of succession planning meant there was simply no decent England team left to carry on after the 2003 success!

[Dave Angel]

I will add that the blame shouldn't lie solely with him though as the RFU let him do that.

They too were looking only at short term glory & didn't look past the 2003 RWC, allowing SCW to make the mistakes over succession planning that he made.


The RFU tried to cash in on England's success (in the run up to the 2003 RWC & shortly after) rather than spending some of that time building for the future.

However it was SCW's short-sightedness that ultimately won us the RWC but also killed off any chance of a competitive England team for then next 4 or 5 years. Making the 2007 RWC Final was a miracle given the lack of SCW's succession planning!

[Bill W]

Somewhat creative journalism and analysis.

"The system" should provide the coaches with a conveyor belt of young players. And it was the coaches fault that it didn't? - for instance.

Reads more to me like Randrew justifying his own existance. Reads a bit like the "three envelopes" joke.

[Bill W]

Quick - somebody send him 3 envelopes!!

[Dave Angel]

Nasher, the Head Coach's job should be to win the RWC but also to ensure that there is a constant flow of elite talent available for succession. SCW left the England team up to it's neck in the brown stuff when he jumped ship & ran away to football.

It's also worth noting that RA wasn't even appointed by the RFU until August 2006 and therefore he can hardly be blamed for the lack of succession that has been a problem for the last 5 years when he's only been around for the last 2 of them!

[Bill W]

Nasher, the Head Coach's job should be to win the RWC but also to ensure that there is a constant flow of elite talent available for succession.

I agree. SCW also agreed. But when SCW was head coach it wasn't. Nor was it when Robbo was head coach. Nor was it when Bashton was head coach. And even now when Johnno is head coach it still isn't!!

[NorthantsTiger]

SCW didn't run away an abandon England. If anyone remembers he left for this very reason. He felt that the RFU was basking in the glory of the world cup win and not committing the resources he needed to ensure constant English success. This is exactly what happened. It is true that he did create a team with the sole purpose of winning the 2003 world cup, hence when half the team retired there was a conspicuous lack of new talent. Whose fault was this? SCW had argued for years that he needed a Rob Andrew style figure to manage the media and direct English Elite rugby whilst he concentrated on the team. The RFU should shoulder the blame for the current position of English rugby, its lack of foresight and lack of direction meant that English rugby was left rudderless when it needed a strong hand on the tiller.

On another note, it is a little rich of Randrew to criticise scw when the man did help england win a world cup, something they had failed to achieve whilst randrew was actually playing.

[Dave Angel]

Whose fault was it Northants Tiger?

It was the coach's fault!

He was the one overseeing the Elite players.

He was the one selecting the international players.

He was the one that could have given young players the chance in friendlies or off the bench.

He was the one ignoring the chance to use England A games as a way of developing new talent.

Young players were still developing in the same way as they are now, through club academies & the England U21 set up. The difference is that SCW wasn't using these channels, sticking instead to the tried & tested (and ageing) players he'd used for the last 3 or 4 years.



The RFU didn't help, but he was the one responsible for the lack of any succession planning.

[Crumby]

RAs version is smoke and mirrors - every club manager/director has the responsibility to bring on talent and if they are good enough they squad for england. The wage cap had a major effect on development of youth (and still does) whilst many clubs just look to survive financially as well as playing wise with the main aim being recruitment rather than development to prevent relegation.
SCW did what he had to do, all RA has acheived is to document the process.

[Goffer3404]

Why has it taken five years to realise this?
As said, clubs should develop the talent, Tigers do their bit but there are still too many of the Premier Clubs who just buy in players in order to do well for financial reasons.
Look forward to RA taking responsibility and not just blaming others.

[Bill W]

Young players were still developing in the same way as they are now, through club academies & the England U21 set up. The difference is that SCW wasn't using these channels, sticking instead to the tried & tested (and ageing) players he'd used for the last 3 or 4 years.

.

SCW was not resposible for the Academies (Club or National) or the U21 set up. Nor is Johnno.

Francis Baron was. He has now delegated it to Randrew. The Mail is disinginious (as are you Dave) in ascribing responsibility to SCW. The blame lies squarely with Baron who ignored what SCW (and others) told him and rather futilely pursued The Way Ahead and chased Central Contracts.

[Easty]

What a load of tosh ~

Out of 19 players who were on the pitch in the final in 2003, only 3 retired with immediate effect, the others showed no intention of doing so until such time that England didn't perform...after a number of embarrasing defeats and after SCW's departure.

Of the same 19 players, almost half are still eligible for selection almost 5 years later, should the coaching team want them.

SCW did not do a runner, he walked off the plane from Australia, into Twickenham, and presented a plan which would see England go forward to the next world cup with the intention of retaining it. This 'Plan' (oh sorry is that a man of 'no' vision)included him 'stepping up to the plate' as "Director of Elite Players" and willing to take 'full' responsibility for the whole of the England set-up......at which point the RFU said......well, something along the lines of "don't be silly" and then decided two years later to appoint the very slimey RA into that exact position, with the only apparent changes being that he should 'step up to the fence and firmly park his but squarely on it' and take absolutely 'no' responsibility for anything

[Bill W]

Exactly Easty!!!