Declaration Of War?

IsraeliTiger · Post by **IsraeliTiger** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 5:44 pm

The BBC are quite shocking, one of their headlines "Israel kills Lebanese Civilians" was quite blatant even for them. I watch Sky News mainly.

sammy · Post by **sammy** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 7:27 pm

Can't give the BBC too much stick. This:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle ... 180202.stm

is a decent bit of journalism, explains several of my questions. Israel are being painted as the aggressor, in this case they clearly are not. Sky News is objective, unadulterated right wing pap. Which means they will side entirely with the Israeli's for fear of undermining the war on terror.

The whole situation is so complex its making my head hurt, love to here from somebody who fully understands and appreciates the situation. As I said earlier The War Against Terror (or T.W.A.T. as it shall henceforth be known) could quite easily develop into WW3.

no.1ellisfan · Post by **no.1ellisfan** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:39 pm

i did the Arab-Israeli conflict case study in history a few years ago......still have absolutely no understanding of the complex situation out there. dont see a resolution anytime soon, but keep hoping.

keep safe out there IT, hope you and friends/family are all safe and well

IsraeliTiger · Post by **IsraeliTiger** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:32 pm

Apparently Hezbollah have missiles capable of reaching Tel Aviv. Thats quite a bit further south than where I live, which means that technically, where I live is within the range of Hezbollah, but still, the Katyushas, while more accurate than the Qassams (little more than metal tubes with an engine and a fan), are still not accurate to pinpoint certain places. As much chance it'll fall into a nearby field or into the sea. The chance of a rocket hitting where I live is pretty much the same as winning the lottery, only the consequences may be different >_>

simon redshaw · Post by **simon redshaw** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:55 am

There have been more rocket attacks, by Hezbollah in the Haifa area today. Eight people were killed. Very worrying indeed.

Hope you are fine Israeli. Please post soon to say all's well. You are in many's thoughts.

IsraeliTiger · Post by **IsraeliTiger** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:53 am

IsraeliTiger signing in for the day to let you know alls well. I'm about half an hour south of Haifa, so not too worried about myself for the moment at least. My brother, and his wife and five month old son are in Haifa though, and my grandparents on both sides live in the Krayot, an area thats also been the target of Katyushas. I have two uncles/aunts in the Krayot too, as well as a cousin, so I am starting to get worried now.

IsraeliTiger · Post by **IsraeliTiger** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:48 am

My brother + family are coming here, so is my cousin and his girlfriend. My aunt has gone to Ra'anana to cousins there, her husband has refused to move, whereas my Mums parents are refusing to move, but have gone into the safe room. My aunt and uncle refuse to leave my grandparents, so are staying too. My dads dad is refusing to even go to the safe room, which is I fear quite typical of him.

IsraeliTiger · Post by **IsraeliTiger** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:29 pm

Apologies for the triple post, I'm kind of using this thread to post updates on the situation.

http://tinyurl.com/q76hd

Thats a BBC map of where the missiles can reach. I live just within range of the Fajr-5 missiles. Their range has been estimated as reaching as far as a city about five or ten kilometres south of here.

Kinoulton · Post by **Kinoulton** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:32 pm

Good luck IT.

This is so annoying.

I know there's rights and wrongs but the people that provoked this knew exactly what they were doing. This outcome was inevitable and they knew it.

Makes me angry.

Good luck some more. And smile as much as you can!

TigerTimmy · Post by **TigerTimmy** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:32 am

Does no one else think that Israel is overreacting slightly? Ok so they were provoked in both cases by the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers, but does that give them the right to react like this? Does their response of bombings and kidnappings not make them as bad (if not worse) as the so called terrorists they are fighting against in Gaza and Lebanon.

In both cases, in Gaza and Lebanon, the people doing the kidnapping are not officially linked with the parties in charge of the respective countries. Yet the retaliation is against the innocent civilians.

As for the statement of “They threatened that if Israel bomb Beirut, they bomb Haifa. Israel has not bombed Beirut, Hezbollah have still launched a Katyusha at Haifa” by Israeli Tiger, had Israel not spent the morning before bombing Beirut airport, making it unusable?

Personally I’m shocked that more people haven’t come out condemning Israel’s reaction. Their new prime minister seems to have lost the plot and is overreacting, but has now got himself stuck and set a dangerous president. Is he going to simply declare war on every country in the area and be done with it?

Kinoulton · Post by **Kinoulton** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:24 am

I think plenty of people have come out and stated that the Israeli government are overreacting.

However, they are a government that were elected by their people, and the people, rightly or wrongly, seem to be pretty well in support of their actions.

Terrorists, however, are the scum of the earth. They haven't been elected because no one wants to elect them, so they carry on bombing and killing for entirely their own ends.

They don't care what you think, or what I think, or what the Lebanese people think. I feel exactly the same way about all terrorists, protestant, catholic or whatever.

And I don't buy this line about "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter".

No terrorist need bother killing innocents in my name, thank you very much.

IsraeliTiger · Post by **IsraeliTiger** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:47 am

TigerTimmy, he won't declare war on everyone in the region, because Jordan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia, believe it or not, support Israel in this. Shocking ain't it? ;)

But yes, I do believe that Tzahal are overreacting, this whole war could go on until either side get bored. Hezbollah launch rockets at Israel, Israel responds by bombing Lebanon etc.... etc... etc.... ad infinitem. And you can't expect rational behaviour from a terrorist group, which means it'll be up to Israel to stop.

In other news, heard rather startling news that the Hezbollah lookout posts on the Southern Border are actually right next to the UN lookout posts, and the UN doesn't attempt to do anything about this.

Kinoulton · Post by **Kinoulton** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:51 am

The UN are useless.

If they had handled the Iraqi situation differently then Bush would have had no excuse to send in his troops and oblige his "allies" to do likewise.

sammy · Post by **sammy** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:40 pm

Im actually pretty sceptical about the whole definition of terrorist. I'd actually define Mr Bush and Blair terrorists. Both recieved fewer votes than the opposition in the last elections yet they appear free to wage war on whoever they want.

Very refreshing IT to see an Israeli recognising the overreaction. You don't punish a terrorist group by bombing the country it resides in. It hasn't worked in Iraq or Afghanistan. It merely makes matters worse. You have to tackle the root issue.

I believe, quite strongly that the term terrorist has been hijacked and used to push a illegal war. Like it or not Kinoulton one mans terrorist IS another mans freedom fighter.

Kinoulton · Post by **Kinoulton** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:19 am

I still don't agree about terrorists, Sammy.

I would accept that the French Resistance in World War II were freedom fighters because theirs was a principally military campaign.

They aimed to be a thorn in the side of the German armed forces and to assist the Allied Forces.

I don't recall them staging covert missions to get into German territory and blow up school buses.