THE DECIDER - ENGLAND V AUSTRALIA - 16th July 2022

[markharbtiger]

I think it’s still any 3 from 6. Form and injury next season should be the deciding factor but you never can tell with Eddie. Maybe he’ll go left field and select Spencer. Mitchell’s your best 9 for me. He’s probably the only one to get near the Welsh squad.

You put Mitchell ahead of Quirke and JVP ?

I think Mitchell’s really got something. I think Quirke is over hyped and JVP is somewhere between the two.

You'll find many Saints supporters who will agree with you. Even Austin H was praising him not too long ago...yeah let's get Care and Mitchell as the top two 9s playing for England...I have no ulterior motives...honest

[Dokie]

Despite others suggestions I have personally seen very little evidence that he is able to play outside the Quins system, where the attacking structure is built around him. It would be very surprising for an international team to do the same.

England’s problems eminate from their selection or lack of options at 12.
Farrell is a class player but he is England’s second best 10. There’s no sign of NZ shoehorning Mounga into the team just because he’s class. So where do England go? They brought in Atkinson and Lawrence as ball carriers and didn’t fancy either. Porter is better suited to 12 for me but as good an adaptable club player he is for us, I don’t think he’s international level. O’Conor is great at times but can also be less than great. Which leaves Lozowski, Kelly and Hendrickson. All largely untried but one or more of them could be the answer.

Didn't they spend a period of time with Barrett at 15 and Mo'unga at 10 to get them both on the pitch at the same time?

Farrell isn't an international quality 10. England tried that was it 2018 or 2019 6N? Played Farrell/Manu/Slade it didn't work and Ford was straight back in apart from the odd occasion when England wanted to be more robust and direct. Farrell might do the job on occasion but most international defences would nullify him if he was the go to option all the time.

Ford is England's best all round flyhalf but Smith brings something more in attack and at a World Cup that is worth its weight in gold. Plus England need another viable option at 10 so it makes lots of sense to persevere with Smith a while longer. Eddie knows he can slot Ford straight back in if he needs to but he also needs to know if there's an injury to Smith or to Ford he has another option.

They did and it worked well because Barrett could perform that role at top level. However, more recently they have selected their best 10 to run the game, with everyone else in their natural positions, rather than following the English model - not just with Farrell but also with Slade at 12, Marchant at 14, Daly at 15.

[wigworth]

England’s problems eminate from their selection or lack of options at 12.
Farrell is a class player but he is England’s second best 10. There’s no sign of NZ shoehorning Mounga into the team just because he’s class. So where do England go? They brought in Atkinson and Lawrence as ball carriers and didn’t fancy either. Porter is better suited to 12 for me but as good an adaptable club player he is for us, I don’t think he’s international level. O’Conor is great at times but can also be less than great. Which leaves Lozowski, Kelly and Hendrickson. All largely untried but one or more of them could be the answer.

Didn't they spend a period of time with Barrett at 15 and Mo'unga at 10 to get them both on the pitch at the same time?

Farrell isn't an international quality 10. England tried that was it 2018 or 2019 6N? Played Farrell/Manu/Slade it didn't work and Ford was straight back in apart from the odd occasion when England wanted to be more robust and direct. Farrell might do the job on occasion but most international defences would nullify him if he was the go to option all the time.

Ford is England's best all round flyhalf but Smith brings something more in attack and at a World Cup that is worth its weight in gold. Plus England need another viable option at 10 so it makes lots of sense to persevere with Smith a while longer. Eddie knows he can slot Ford straight back in if he needs to but he also needs to know if there's an injury to Smith or to Ford he has another option.

They did and it worked well because Barrett could perform that role at top level. However, more recently they have selected their best 10 to run the game, with everyone else in their natural positions, rather than following the English model - not just with Farrell but also with Slade at 12, Marchant at 14, Daly at 15.

I don't agree here, there has been a lot of clamouring in NZ for Mo'unga to be starting and Barrett to be dropped completely, BB has become the Farrell-esque figure for the ABs.

[Dokie]

Didn't they spend a period of time with Barrett at 15 and Mo'unga at 10 to get them both on the pitch at the same time?

Farrell isn't an international quality 10. England tried that was it 2018 or 2019 6N? Played Farrell/Manu/Slade it didn't work and Ford was straight back in apart from the odd occasion when England wanted to be more robust and direct. Farrell might do the job on occasion but most international defences would nullify him if he was the go to option all the time.

Ford is England's best all round flyhalf but Smith brings something more in attack and at a World Cup that is worth its weight in gold. Plus England need another viable option at 10 so it makes lots of sense to persevere with Smith a while longer. Eddie knows he can slot Ford straight back in if he needs to but he also needs to know if there's an injury to Smith or to Ford he has another option.

They did and it worked well because Barrett could perform that role at top level. However, more recently they have selected their best 10 to run the game, with everyone else in their natural positions, rather than following the English model - not just with Farrell but also with Slade at 12, Marchant at 14, Daly at 15.

I don't agree here, there has been a lot of clamouring in NZ for Mo'unga to be starting and Barrett to be dropped completely, BB has become the Farrell-esque figure for the ABs.

You’re missing the point of the conversation I’m afraid, which is England pick players out of position to get them in the team. If Mounga replaces Barrett, that’s a 10 replacing a 10.

[wigworth]

They did and it worked well because Barrett could perform that role at top level. However, more recently they have selected their best 10 to run the game, with everyone else in their natural positions, rather than following the English model - not just with Farrell but also with Slade at 12, Marchant at 14, Daly at 15.

I don't agree here, there has been a lot of clamouring in NZ for Mo'unga to be starting and Barrett to be dropped completely, BB has become the Farrell-esque figure for the ABs.

You’re missing the point of the conversation I’m afraid, which is England pick players out of position to get them in the team. If Mounga replaces Barrett, that’s a 10 replacing a 10.

It was more a comment on how NZ have not been picking their best 10 and are forcing in BB because of his name. I do agree that England do move back line players around a little too much although I think most of that does come down to the fact that most of the backs are all pretty lightweight and can move around and plug holes where and when they are needed, if for example Manu was fit and could play consistently I think there would be a greater solidity in players playing in fixed positions around a focal point in the back line.

[LE18]

Can you believe it, D Tele is reporting that Eddie Jones has dropped JVP to bench as tomorrow's referee is very quick to punish players not rolling away and he expects that this should give us plenty of quick ball and Care is going to speed up our play off quick ball. He says its tactical and JVP will have a role to play, bur Care quicker than JVP

[Scott1]

Can you believe it, D Tele is reporting that Eddie Jones has dropped JVP to bench as tomorrow's referee is very quick to punish players not rolling away and he expects that this should give us plenty of quick ball and Care is going to speed up our play off quick ball. He says its tactical and JVP will have a role to play, bur Care quicker than JVP

Crazy talk! JVP speed of service was far quicker than Cares was in the first test and I honestly believe that we would’ve won that first test if JVP started ,such as the amount of quick ball that was presented with our collision dominance (certainly in the first half). I think EJ just takes the beeswax at times with what he comes out with

[wigworth]

I think that there is a good chance this could end up being Care's last England game.

[BigDan50]

If it is he’s had a great career and has served England well, always rated him.

[Scott1]

Show pony! Played a ridiculous ball last week that was going dead and lucky that it never scored points off it,liability!

[BigDan50]

With a post like that you just confirm that your rugby knowledge is very poor.

[Scott1]

With a post like that you just confirm that your rugby knowledge is very poor.

Ball was going dead and he did a ridiculous dive into touch and kept it alive,if that goes to an Ozzie it's a try,like I said liability!

[BigDan50]

Oh dear.

[Scott1]

Oh dear.

Obviously didn't watch the match then ,catch up and get back to me

[wigworth]

I see a tigers shirt in the crowd.