Premiership Final v Saracens - 18th June 2022 KO 15:00

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

As for getting away with it I give you:

"The Hand of Back"....

As for Sarries, its Mark McCall I feel for, all of his genuine achievements trashed, their shirts just more evidence of "Michael" taking.

You have to hope its "Sir" Wayne in the middle Sat.

[westwinds31]

To be fair I've seen video from the Sarries v Quins game of the quins no 4 double punching OF in the head from behind who ends up blooded but smiling - neither ref nor TMO nor Citing Commissioner deemed it worth a review - it goes both ways. As it does for all teams. We were lucky with the Saints yellow card (despite an earlier Saints high tackle going unchecked).

In those games where everything is on the line, you need to do whatever is necessary to get an advantage and the win. If that means "getting away with something" then players will do it, from all clubs. Tigers during the glory years were accused of something similar as I recall, always getting the decisions. I think it's jealousy in a lot of cases where Saracens are concerned. They built a culture that isn't matched anywhere else and the whole club buys into it. We've developed something similar although we're in the early stages. The thing that I don't like about them is the celebrating after something as simple as a knock-on. They're in your face (literally)....yelling. I'm not sure that I could walk away with Itoje bellowing in my ear ! And that's part of their game. We need to ignore it, difficult though. Quins were rattled in that semi-final, which went a long way to deciding the outcome.

couldn't agree more - I have no problem with aggression and actually don't see a problem with a level of fisticuffs as 99% of the time nothing serious happens. However the niggle when winning a penalty/opposition make a mistake is so childish and unsavoury. Sarries are such a good team they really don't need to behave as they do and by doing so they not only make a mockery of their moto: Discipline, honesty, hard work, humility they do nothing for setting an example for the wider game.

There's only one way of dealing with them and that's fighting fire with fire. Hit them hard, knock them back, get the referee on our side etc - easier said than done, but that's where your Wiese, Wells etc come to the fore.

[ay2oh]

As for getting away with it I give you:

"The Hand of Back"....

As for Sarries, its Mark McCall I feel for, all of his genuine achievements trashed, their shirts just more evidence of "Michael" taking.

You have to hope its "Sir" Wayne in the middle Sat.

How is punching someone in the face related to “the hand of Back” ?

[Wayne Richardson Fan Club]

As for getting away with it I give you:

"The Hand of Back"....

As for Sarries, its Mark McCall I feel for, all of his genuine achievements trashed, their shirts just more evidence of "Michael" taking.

You have to hope its "Sir" Wayne in the middle Sat.

How is punching someone in the face related to “the hand of Back” ?

He got away with it.

[westwinds31]

I think it's a bit naive thinking that the selection of a referee could decide the outcome of this, or any game to be honest. Yes, there have been instances where a key decision was made that decided the game either way, but in the main, despite any cards/decisions/TMO interventions etc, the team that wins the game are normally deserving of that win. i mean, you could argue that Saints deserved to win that on Saturday, but they didn't take their chances, that's not our fault.

[Yorkie1]

I’m looking for 3 tickets. What is the best way to buy them? Do I get them now or wait until clubs return them? Will Tigers allocation sell out? Any help much appreciated.

As well as the four tickets I’m try to sell on the other thread, I also have three in L23 bought from club allocation which I’d be willing to sell (and then I’d use the other tickets). PM me if interested.

[Scott1]

I think it's a bit naive thinking that the selection of a referee could decide the outcome of this, or any game to be honest. Yes, there have been instances where a key decision was made that decided the game either way, but in the main, despite any cards/decisions/TMO interventions etc, the team that wins the game are normally deserving of that win. i mean, you could argue that Saints deserved to win that on Saturday, but they didn't take their chances, that's not our fault.

Not necessarily, a penalty instead of a yellow or a yellow instead of a red could make a huge difference

[kpj tiger]

Our lineout was outstanding in the first half of the season but has felt a lot more ropey in the 2nd half and I think Sarries will really target it to prevent our maul game getting going, with that in mind do we go with one of Wells, Chessum or Martin at 6 with Hanro at 7 to give an extra jumping option. Also Sarries really effectively dealt with Evans at the weekend which makes me think Reffell might be better coming off the bench against more tired legs.

In the back 3 I'd be tempted to go with Potter and Ashton for the aerial battle that is 100% going to happen with Nadolo on the bench to give some attacking impetus in the last 20, its harsh on Porter who's been one of the heroes of the season but I just don't see where he fits except maybe at 12 but like others I'd rather see Scott there in a game of this magnitude.

With all that in mind i'd go with

1. Genge
2. Montoya
3. Cole
4. Wells
5. Green
6. Martin
7. Hanro
8. Weise
9. Youngs
10. Ford
11. Potter
12. Scott
13. Moroni
14. Ashton
15. Steward

16. Clare
17. Whitcome/Leatiagaga
18. Heyes
19. Chessum
20. Reffell
21. JVP
22. Burns
23. Nadolo

[westwinds31]

I think it's a bit naive thinking that the selection of a referee could decide the outcome of this, or any game to be honest. Yes, there have been instances where a key decision was made that decided the game either way, but in the main, despite any cards/decisions/TMO interventions etc, the team that wins the game are normally deserving of that win. i mean, you could argue that Saints deserved to win that on Saturday, but they didn't take their chances, that's not our fault.

Not necessarily, a penalty instead of a yellow or a yellow instead of a red could make a huge difference

But in general I'm saying, it's not one decision that decides the majority of games.

[TigerFeetSteve]

Our lineout was outstanding in the first half of the season but has felt a lot more ropey in the 2nd half and I think Sarries will really target it to prevent our maul game getting going, with that in mind do we go with one of Wells, Chessum or Martin at 6 with Hanro at 7 to give an extra jumping option. Also Sarries really effectively dealt with Evans at the weekend which makes me think Reffell might be better coming off the bench against more tired legs.

In the back 3 I'd be tempted to go with Potter and Ashton for the aerial battle that is 100% going to happen with Nadolo on the bench to give some attacking impetus in the last 20, its harsh on Porter who's been one of the heroes of the season but I just don't see where he fits except maybe at 12 but like others I'd rather see Scott there in a game of this magnitude.

With all that in mind i'd go with

1. Genge
2. Montoya
3. Cole
4. Wells
5. Green
6. Martin
7. Hanro
8. Weise
9. Youngs
10. Ford
11. Potter
12. Scott
13. Moroni
14. Ashton
15. Steward

16. Clare
17. Whitcome/Leatiagaga
18. Heyes
19. Chessum
20. Reffell
21. JVP
22. Burns
23. Nadolo

Re. The lineout, I heavily suspect that's just the injury to Montoya meaning he's not training as much. Lineouts are drilled and practiced to death and rely on precise timings, however Montoya has seen very limited gametime outside of big knockout games since being spotted in a leg brace a couple of months ago. I suspect he's on minimal training atm to keep risks to him at a minimum, especially with Dolly also out

[kpj tiger]

Our lineout was outstanding in the first half of the season but has felt a lot more ropey in the 2nd half and I think Sarries will really target it to prevent our maul game getting going, with that in mind do we go with one of Wells, Chessum or Martin at 6 with Hanro at 7 to give an extra jumping option. Also Sarries really effectively dealt with Evans at the weekend which makes me think Reffell might be better coming off the bench against more tired legs.

In the back 3 I'd be tempted to go with Potter and Ashton for the aerial battle that is 100% going to happen with Nadolo on the bench to give some attacking impetus in the last 20, its harsh on Porter who's been one of the heroes of the season but I just don't see where he fits except maybe at 12 but like others I'd rather see Scott there in a game of this magnitude.

With all that in mind i'd go with

1. Genge
2. Montoya
3. Cole
4. Wells
5. Green
6. Martin
7. Hanro
8. Weise
9. Youngs
10. Ford
11. Potter
12. Scott
13. Moroni
14. Ashton
15. Steward

16. Clare
17. Whitcome/Leatiagaga
18. Heyes
19. Chessum
20. Reffell
21. JVP
22. Burns
23. Nadolo

Re. The lineout, I heavily suspect that's just the injury to Montoya meaning he's not training as much. Lineouts are drilled and practiced to death and rely on precise timings, however Montoya has seen very limited gametime outside of big knockout games since being spotted in a leg brace a couple of months ago. I suspect he's on minimal training atm to keep risks to him at a minimum, especially with Dolly also out

You may well be right but I feel like other teams have been reading our lineout pretty effectively, partly I feel like that is because of a over reliance on throwing to Hanro but that's just a hunch

[Tiglon]

I think most of our problems at line-outs have been due to us not getting it quite right. There have been plenty of not straights, overthrown, underthrown and/or poorly timed jumps/lifts. I don't remember seeing us lose many where I've thought we got it spot on but the opposition read it.

Isiekwe was brilliant at disrupting the line-out when he came on last week and it is an area of concern for Saturday.

Reffell is more than just a jackaler, I wouldn't suggest dropping him just because Evans didn't have much luck last week.

My pack would be the same as last week, with Green being important in the mauls which could be a big part of the game, and Chessum for impact. Maybe Chessum over Wells for his physicality.

The back line picks itself too IMO - same again but Scott in for Kelly, although I wouldn't be surprised to see Porter there.

I'm not sure it's a game for Nadolo, Sarries will deal with him better than any other Prem team and certainly a lot better than Saints have.

For me this match comes down to getting the basics right, matching or bettering Sarries physically and taking opportunities. For the last part of that, you'd probably want Ashton on the bench, or starting if Porter is at 12.

[TigerFeetSteve]

I think most of our problems at line-outs have been due to us not getting it quite right. There have been plenty of not straights, overthrown, underthrown and/or poorly timed jumps/lifts. I don't remember seeing us lose many where I've thought we got it spot on but the opposition read it.

Isiekwe was brilliant at disrupting the line-out when he came on last week and it is an area of concern for Saturday.

Reffell is more than just a jackaler, I wouldn't suggest dropping him just because Evans didn't have much luck last week.

My pack would be the same as last week, with Green being important in the mauls which could be a big part of the game, and Chessum for impact. Maybe Chessum over Wells for his physicality.

The back line picks itself too IMO - same again but Scott in for Kelly, although I wouldn't be surprised to see Porter there.

I'm not sure it's a game for Nadolo, Sarries will deal with him better than any other Prem team and certainly a lot better than Saints have.

For me this match comes down to getting the basics right, matching or bettering Sarries physically and taking opportunities. For the last part of that, you'd probably want Ashton on the bench, or starting if Porter is at 12.

Defensively I think Sarries will be more capable of dealing with the threat posed by Nadolo.

Therefore I'd bring Scott and Ashton in to the 23 for Kelly and Nadolo. Also we need a bench that can all do the 80 if required (Steward for example was in significant discomfort and once taped up carried on, but I don't think we can afford a player who cannot do 70+ min on the bench, not sure on the exact combo, but probably keep Porter starting at 11, Scott at 12, Potter 14, Ashton 23.

Only other change to the 23 I'd make is I'd go with Whitcombe (if fully fit) over Leatigaga, for the same reason as Ashton in for Nadolo, we need everyone to be ready for a brutal 80min game which IMO Leatigaga would struggle with more than 40min.

Outside of that I'd put Chessum starting, as more of a lineout threat.

I'm torn between Martin and Reffell. Martin coming on did provide the point in the game we finally achieved superiority in the match and he is a defensive machine. It for me depends what the gameplan is vs Saracens.

Some say we should play our gameplan in every game but I like the fact that Borthwick has specific plans vs every opponent. He analyses and produces a team that can win in each scenario.

We've had 2 close games vs Saracens and not gone in at full strength for either so am happy to take the underdog tag and see if they get surprised by what Borthwick has planned. 100% we'll have a plan for this game beyond anything we've seen this season. This is the one Borthwick will have been planning for for months and months and he will have attended to every detail, with the likes of Wigglesworth and his inside info it will be interesting to see!

[Chobbsy]

Genge
Montoya
Cole
Wells
Chessum
Liebenberg
Reffell
Weise
Youngs
Ford
Nadolo
Scott
Moroni
Potter
Steward

Ladygaga,Clare,Heyes,Green,Martin,JVP,Burns,Porter

Ashton if fit, he performs at Twickenham, always has

[Chobbsy]

For me personally, unless injured Ashton has to play. Nadalo has been great but he is too slow and not good under the high ball.
Discipline will be a huge factor.

Totally agree, it nearly cost us against Saints