Why are we still knocking Cockers for not signing Moody for the money and length of contract he wanted.
Because it was a betrayal of a Tigers great.
Because it is a notice to all the present and future players that whatever you do and how well you do it, you will ultimately be discarded
without consideration. Just another bean to be counted.
He was the England Captain at the time.
It was the ultimate "stab in the back" for Lewis.
Sorry, I know all the rubbish about how many games he played at Bath.
His injuries etc. (they were not known when he was discarded).
He now looks back at Tigers with more than sadness.
IMHO For that alone we as a club should be deeply ashamed.
We didn't treat Deano that well at the end either, but business is business,no room for sentiment in the pro era. After all there's a lot on here what Cockers shown the door don't they?
Lewis was offered a contract, it wasn't to his liking and he went to barf for a better offer, there is nothing wrong in him doing that,any more than there was nothing wrong in Tigers trying to preserve their position.
Castro is in a similar position, so was Alex T, players look after their financial future and so does a board of a rugby club.We are not the old school tie sport any more, not saying it is right or better,just stating the facts.
"If you want entertainment, go to the theatre," says Edinburgh head coach Richard Cockerill. "Rugby players play the game to win.15/1/21.
Why are we still knocking Cockers for not signing Moody for the money and length of contract he wanted.
Because it was a betrayal of a Tigers great.
Because it is a notice to all the present and future players that whatever you do and how well you do it, you will ultimately be discarded
without consideration. Just another bean to be counted.
He was the England Captain at the time.
It was the ultimate "stab in the back" for Lewis.
Sorry, I know all the rubbish about how many games he played at Bath.
His injuries etc. (they were not known when he was discarded).
He now looks back at Tigers with more than sadness.
IMHO For that alone we as a club should be deeply ashamed.
Hear, hear - similalry Dean Richards, Dan Hipkiss, Sam Vesty, Billy Twelvetrees, etc and soon to be Castro. It's not just what was done it was how it was done!
You want total commitment from your players yet you treat them thus.
What about the players left on the bench on Saturday night, Brookes, Balmain, Noone, Young all players bought by Cockerill yet what faith does he show in them?
For years now on this forum we have been bemoaning the poor use of replacements.
Yet on Saturday despite the second half performance we do not get a replacement until the 76th minute with the game lost. Out esteemed coach then goes on the radio and says "I may have left the replacements a bit late", how are the players and us supporters expected to have any faith in him and his assistant?
You want total commitment from your players yet you treat them thus.
What about the players left on the bench on Saturday night, Brookes, Balmain, Noone, Young all players bought by Cockerill yet what faith does he show in them?
For years now on this forum we have been bemoaning the poor use of replacements.
Yet on Saturday despite the second half performance we do not get a replacement until the 76th minute with the game lost. Out esteemed coach then goes on the radio and says "I may have left the replacements a bit late", how are the players and us supporters expected to have any faith in him and his assistant?
You want total commitment from your players yet you treat them thus.
What about the players left on the bench on Saturday night, Brookes, Balmain, Noone, Young all players bought by Cockerill yet what faith does he show in them?
For years now on this forum we have been bemoaning the poor use of replacements.
Yet on Saturday despite the second half performance we do not get a replacement until the 76th minute with the game lost. Out esteemed coach then goes on the radio and says "I may have left the replacements a bit late", how are the players and us supporters expected to have any faith in him and his assistant?
Absolutely.
I thought Young came on earlier?
The error was probably not replacing Murphy earlier who looked to be running out of gas at 60 min. If the coach had however, he would have probably been pilloried for doing so
I have always harbored doubts about RC/MOC, but 2 losses - despite the pain do not constitute a reason to ditch either or both now.
That said the time to judge will be post May... Prem Final win and Semi in HC would constitute fair progress. A semi final loss in premiership, or worse not making play offs, together with Q-F loss in Toulon would be terminal for this coaching team IMHO.
Anything in between and serious questions need to be asked.
One other criteria. Look, if RC continues to top his own world record for the number of cliches in a 5 min interview he should stop representing the club in the media. Look, they are good team, but find someone who can say something that has just a little bit of meaning in it.
You have to name a bench in case of injuries,you do not have to use them if it makes things worse,just look at France on saturday. Most of those on the bench played badly last time out against the Scarlets and were possibly there because we had no-one else.
We were in with a shout and our pack were doing fine, it was out wide where we shipped points, we didn't need new props.
"If you want entertainment, go to the theatre," says Edinburgh head coach Richard Cockerill. "Rugby players play the game to win.15/1/21.
Bernie Wrote:You have to name a bench in case of injuries,you do not have to use them if it makes things worse,just look at France on saturday. Most of those on the bench played badly last time out against the Scarlets and were possibly there because we had no-one else.
We were in with a shout and our pack were doing fine, it was out wide where we shipped points, we didn't need new props.-
Fair point but considering Tait had been playing full games as our first choice 15 and Young is thought by some to be unlucky not to start, what was the point of bringing them on with less than five minutes to go?
Bernie Wrote:You have to name a bench in case of injuries,you do not have to use them if it makes things worse,just look at France on saturday. Most of those on the bench played badly last time out against the Scarlets and were possibly there because we had no-one else.
We were in with a shout and our pack were doing fine, it was out wide where we shipped points, we didn't need new props.-
Fair point but considering Tait had been playing full games as our first choice 15 and Young is thought by some to be unlucky not to start, what was the point of bringing them on with less than five minutes to go?
Tait unlucky not to start and I thought Young continues to do nothing to enhance his starting ambitions.
Without hope we are nothing, keep the faith, a Tiger for eternity
Bernie Wrote:You have to name a bench in case of injuries,you do not have to use them if it makes things worse,just look at France on saturday. Most of those on the bench played badly last time out against the Scarlets and were possibly there because we had no-one else.
We were in with a shout and our pack were doing fine, it was out wide where we shipped points, we didn't need new props.-
Fair point but considering Tait had been playing full games as our first choice 15 and Young is thought by some to be unlucky not to start, what was the point of bringing them on with less than five minutes to go?
I have to say I don't have any idea why coaches do that in the dieing minutes unless you are in front and want to run the clock down,which we weren't. I guess resting Tait and giving Geordie a shot was a reasonable punt to me.
"If you want entertainment, go to the theatre," says Edinburgh head coach Richard Cockerill. "Rugby players play the game to win.15/1/21.
Sadly, there is no incentive to produce players for England, having a strong nucleus of oversees players is actually the best way to avoid problems in the 6 nations period. To make it worse, we always seem to play the other top teams when we are understrength. Saturday's team could probably have won against all but Sarries or Quins. It is time that sides who provide internationals were compensated properly and allowed to recruit back-up for those periods.
And how about a wild card - Sir Clive as supremo, RC as head coach?
Has no one else noticed that Sir Clive never misses a chance when on TV to say what an excellent job Cockers is doing?
rdracup wrote:
That said the time to judge will be post May... Prem Final win and Semi in HC would constitute fair progress. A semi final loss in premiership, or worse not making play offs, together with Q-F loss in Toulon would be terminal for this coaching team IMHO.
Anything in between and serious questions need to be asked.
.
The big question is have Tigers won trophies in recent year because of or in spite of RC? At the moment, I am on the fence. Have to say, I quite agree with the benchmarks listed above. Suppose we shall find out the answers in May.
Firstly, some really worrying comments on here about commitment being injuring yourself for the club's cause ! You can still give 100% you know and be controlled about it !
What I find so frustrating about these forums is peoples inability to read between the lines with a realistic level of common sense! I don't want blokes getting hurt just for the sakes of it nor am I even suggesting that it is wise but in reality this is the highest level of the sport in England. I would expect that players at the highest level possess something that the ordinary players do not. As we see very often with successfull teams/players, one of these extra ordinary abilities is to push themselves beyond the levels of the ordinary both physically and mentally. Commonly the repercussions for such characters often results in injury being caused through sheer determination and :censored: mindedness. To these characters playing safe is not even an option, it simply does not even enter their mindset. IMO it is something we don't see as much as we once did but I suppose in the end this is the difference between playing rugby for money or love. It is very simple, don't put words into my mouth. If you don't understand it then that is your problem!
Obviously caught you at a bad time The Boy Dave. So earlier in the thread when someone else (as you call it) doesn't read between the lines you post a perfectly reasonable reply saying that you disagree, unlike your response to my similar opinion later on ! I'm sure quite a few people have played rugby on this forum so we all know about commitment. Some would call the Moody or Lawes commitment as reckless and lacking discipline, others see blood running an are of the opinion that it's being spilt for the shirt. You've played the game, so you must have been in some games where you've been in the ascendency for a period of time and everything is going right...then suddenly the opposition get the upper hand and you start going backwards, you get tired, you drop off tackles, it's difficult to go forward and regain ground. So you think Crane gave 100%, I say it's about time.
Obviously caught you at a bad time The Boy Dave. So earlier in the thread when someone else (as you call it) doesn't read between the lines you post a perfectly reasonable reply saying that you disagree, unlike your response to my similar opinion later on ! I'm sure quite a few people have played rugby on this forum so we all know about commitment. Some would call the Moody or Lawes commitment as reckless and lacking discipline, others see blood running an are of the opinion that it's being spilt for the shirt. You've played the game, so you must have been in some games where you've been in the ascendency for a period of time and everything is going right...then suddenly the opposition get the upper hand and you start going backwards, you get tired, you drop off tackles, it's difficult to go forward and regain ground. So you think Crane gave 100%, I say it's about time
Never a bad time for a disagreement!
Nothing personal!
We see enough recklessness and indiscipline with silly penalties and dirty play. If an honest player giving his all is considered reckless or lacking discipline then I am watching the wrong sport. I prefer to go on what my eyes tell me. For whatever reason's there is only one winner in an even match up such as the past two games and unfortunately we came off second best, not because we are any poorer IMO but simply beacause the other teams appeared to want it just a little bit more. Could we have won? Yes! Should we have won? Yes! Did we win? No!
