Speaking as someone whose middle brother served honourably there, and of who I am proud, I wouldn't open that can of worms any further.AngusMcCoatup wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:33 amLet us not forget those that served our Country down there April to June 1982 and since!Hot_Charlie wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:25 amBoth.
UAR quick to brush it all under the carpet when the finger was pointed in the direction of their culture. A nice, diverse, tolerant culture that was bringing through their youth players.
Sadly, it has to be remembered, beyond sport, Argentina is a country with many longstanding issues from the top down. Corrupt politicians seem the norm, and the go-to hiding place for those trying to hide from justice post WW2 in the 1950s-1980s.
However the game of Rugby has brought them some respect across the world.
Matera hero to zero
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Re: Matera hero to zero
Leicester Tigers 1995-
Nottingham 1995-2000
Swansea (Whites) 1988-95
A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.
Nottingham 1995-2000
Swansea (Whites) 1988-95
A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.
Re: Matera hero to zero
Hmm, not sure common sense has prevailed really. Doesn't set a great example does it? Reinstating him as captain and basically getting off scot free isn't really looking at the bigger picture.
He was young, yes. He's now a different person, he says he is. He's apologised, has he? He's learned, only he knows...
I'd like to see him do something to show he's a different person. Like actively get out into communities, maybe when he's back in Paris and work with young black kids.
Would be interesting to see the reaction of his black team mates when he's back at Stade....
He was young, yes. He's now a different person, he says he is. He's apologised, has he? He's learned, only he knows...
I'd like to see him do something to show he's a different person. Like actively get out into communities, maybe when he's back in Paris and work with young black kids.
Would be interesting to see the reaction of his black team mates when he's back at Stade....
Re: Matera hero to zero
Neil Fissler has deleted his twitter, not sure why but I put it here because I have a suspicion it’s linked to what’s gone down with Matera.
Formerly of Burbaaage (not Inkleh), now up north at uni
Re: Matera hero to zero
Why is that? Was he backing him and got heat for it?
"Rugby isn't a contact sport,ballroom dancing is a contact sport. Rugby is a collision sport" Heyneke Meyer
Re: Matera hero to zero
Really good article with quotes from Ugo Monye explaining why it's a problem that UAR have backed down.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/55173053
"Just so we are clear, [the comments] are not immature - they are racist and they are vile."
The issue with dismissing the tweets as immature is that you are implying that racism is just something you do when you're a kid (a 19/20 year old kid who would be treated as an adult in most countries).
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/55173053
"Just so we are clear, [the comments] are not immature - they are racist and they are vile."
The issue with dismissing the tweets as immature is that you are implying that racism is just something you do when you're a kid (a 19/20 year old kid who would be treated as an adult in most countries).
Re: Matera hero to zero
I don't think any of us were justifying what Matera said, more that it was a long time ago when he was a youth.
No, at that age we are not developmentally mature. Criminally responsible in the eyes of the law, yes.
Was it right that he apologised and made it publically clear that he knew that what he said back them was wrong - absolutely.
Reinstating him as captain immediately was also not a good message to send out.
The problem is that too many people feel entitled to judge the errors of others. To be honest many of those under the age of 50 have lived such sheltered lives in the almost Orwellian era of today's nwespeak when people are pilloried for using the wrong terminology for ethnicity. However those that are doing this are unaware through ignorance that the terms used innocently by one generation as being perfectly innocent and polite terms in the era that individual comes from. Just because this generation have different polite terms does not mean that others are necessarily wrong. Too much black and white thinking in a greyscale world.
I wonder how many under 30s have read 1984 or even watched the film. Not too many, and I suspect they might find it uncomfortable viewing.
No, at that age we are not developmentally mature. Criminally responsible in the eyes of the law, yes.
Was it right that he apologised and made it publically clear that he knew that what he said back them was wrong - absolutely.
Reinstating him as captain immediately was also not a good message to send out.
The problem is that too many people feel entitled to judge the errors of others. To be honest many of those under the age of 50 have lived such sheltered lives in the almost Orwellian era of today's nwespeak when people are pilloried for using the wrong terminology for ethnicity. However those that are doing this are unaware through ignorance that the terms used innocently by one generation as being perfectly innocent and polite terms in the era that individual comes from. Just because this generation have different polite terms does not mean that others are necessarily wrong. Too much black and white thinking in a greyscale world.
I wonder how many under 30s have read 1984 or even watched the film. Not too many, and I suspect they might find it uncomfortable viewing.
Re: Matera hero to zero
I would point out that Matera has not been criticised for using the wrong terminology, but for suggesting it would be a good idea to kill black people. I'm not judging Matera, I've made mistakes too and been punished for them, I've said and written silly things I didn't mean, but it's important for UAR to send a clear message against racism - unfortunately the message they've sent so far is that it's ok to be racist if you're young and you say sorry at some point.
I'm not saying Matera should never play for the Pumas again, I'm not saying he should be kicked out of rugby, I'm not even saying he should be dropped from the team for longer - the rugby side of things is in fact almost irrelevant. However, UAR need to send a much stronger message with the words they choose and Matera should be used to do some good to balance out his mistake - e.g. as others have suggested some kind of community service work educating against racism in Argentina.
Argentina now have a lot of young people reading what Matera wrote all those years ago and laughing about it, thinking it's funny and thinking that if their hero did that when he was 19, it must be ok for them too - particularly when everyone is making excuses for him.
I'm not saying Matera should never play for the Pumas again, I'm not saying he should be kicked out of rugby, I'm not even saying he should be dropped from the team for longer - the rugby side of things is in fact almost irrelevant. However, UAR need to send a much stronger message with the words they choose and Matera should be used to do some good to balance out his mistake - e.g. as others have suggested some kind of community service work educating against racism in Argentina.
Argentina now have a lot of young people reading what Matera wrote all those years ago and laughing about it, thinking it's funny and thinking that if their hero did that when he was 19, it must be ok for them too - particularly when everyone is making excuses for him.
Re: Matera hero to zero
Apparently he has got to undergo and educational/remedial educational program before being considered for captaincy.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/55475293
So the Argentinian rugby authorities have taken time to reflect, taking a measured approach to this and ultimately to young players in Argentina.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/55475293
So the Argentinian rugby authorities have taken time to reflect, taking a measured approach to this and ultimately to young players in Argentina.
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Re: Matera hero to zero
At the risk of being slightly off-topic, when he was brought in as injury dispensation for Tom Croft, why did he only play eight games for Tigers?
Re: Matera hero to zero
Because everyone was too scared of himNot a jock wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:06 pm At the risk of being slightly off-topic, when he was brought in as injury dispensation for Tom Croft, why did he only play eight games for Tigers?
"Rugby isn't a contact sport,ballroom dancing is a contact sport. Rugby is a collision sport" Heyneke Meyer
Re: Matera hero to zero
Presumably because Tigers in those days were unwilling to let young players get too much game time and perhaps his face didn't fit?
Re: Matera hero to zero
Crazy world we live in! It’s like ANTIFA and UAF walking around acting like nazis. They love freedom of speech but dont dare say anything they dont like
"Rugby isn't a contact sport,ballroom dancing is a contact sport. Rugby is a collision sport" Heyneke Meyer