Why not us?

[ellis9]

Fair enough. Need I ask who you think is or are the best fly half/halves in England?

Well, i'll humour you here, but only because it's turning your own blinkered logic against you RE Ben Youngs - the best EQP is obviously Owen Farrell.

I'd even consider Cipriani better than Ford - BUT, he is mercurial and isn't as consistent as Ford, not to mention that EJ would never select him. On balance I'd take Ford in an England jersey.

Obviously Owen Farrell? Why? It's not obvious though is it?

[Roly]

Tuilagi is apparently on £425,000 and Ford on £450,000 so if these are correct, Ford obviously is the highest paid.

Gotta be some seriously overpaid guys in our squad

And there was me thinking I was the only one who could see it....

[ellis9]

We stick to the cap though. That's the difference.

[Roly]

Fair enough. Need I ask who you think is or are the best fly half/halves in England?

Well, i'll humour you here, but only because it's turning your own blinkered logic against you RE Ben Youngs - the best EQP is obviously Owen Farrell.

I'd even consider Cipriani better than Ford - BUT, he is mercurial and isn't as consistent as Ford, not to mention that EJ would never select him. On balance I'd take Ford in an England jersey.

Obviously Owen Farrell? Why? It's not obvious though is it?

Now I've stopped humouring you - if I had to explain that observation in light of your previous opinion on Ben Youngs and your almost uncanny ability to predict league and cup results, then I'd be here all day. Many people wouldn't like that.

[Roly]

We stick to the cap though. That's the difference.

So do Chiefs.

Next question.

[Tiger93]

We stick to the cap though. That's the difference.

Id be intrigued to see a full squad list of are players earnings.

What cap? Theres not a cats chance in hell Sarries stick to the cap given their recent renewals.

[ellis9]

We stick to the cap though. That's the difference.

So do Chiefs.

Next question.

Next question? It was a statement, not a question so there is no next question.

Exeter have a very, very good coach and play rugby the right way, the way we used to. The way we should have stuck to instead of trying to play "entertaining rugby" just to keep some fans happy who were bored watching "boring" rugby. I feel like a parrot. I said this, the very moment Mauger was brought in.

[ellis9]

We stick to the cap though. That's the difference.

Id be intrigued to see a full squad list of are players earnings.

What cap? Theres not a cats chance in hell Sarries stick to the cap given their recent renewals.

There's no list published. Strange that.

I know there's not a chance they are sticking to the cap! That's the point I am making!

[Roly]

We stick to the cap though. That's the difference.

Id be intrigued to see a full squad list of are players earnings.

What cap? Theres not a cats chance in hell Sarries stick to the cap given their recent renewals.

The 'Salary Cap' is a joke, its been abused (allegedly) since its inception and even when someone cried foul, there was so little appetite amongst the other clubs to get to the bottom of the abuse, it made you wonder just who was innocent - most likely hardly anyone had the confidence to open up their books for fear of being caught out.

Furthermore, having a salary cap that is millions short of that imposed on our French and Irish rivals is an automatic handicap - its no accident that Saracens aside, French and Irish clubs have dominated Europe in the last 10 years.

I understand there might be an argument that says we don't want rugby to go down the football route and we need to keep a level playing field, but it doesn't stack up unless everyone is singing off the same hymn sheet.

Scrap the cap, and be damned.

[johnthegriff]

The salary cap is a joke, it was designed to ensure level playing field and prevent clubs trying to compete and bankrupting themselves in the process, it worked to a certain extent then that nice man Mr Craig at Bath somehow persuaded the Premiership to have Marquee players thereby negating the level playing field idea. The known but not admitted abuses of the system was supposedly solved moving forwards by raising the cap considerably with little or no thought given to where the money was coming from other than the deep pockets of the obscenely rich sugar daddies. There are clubs or businesses that develop or are developing grounds and sustainable businesses, Exeter, Worcester, Northampton, Tigers for example and then there are others that just seem to be accumulating massive debt year on year Saracens, and Bath for example without really giving their paying customers suitable accommodation. The Wasps system I do not understand how it will work out so I wait and see. The result of the increased wage cap has seen agents demanding more for their charges, the reduction in playing squads and the disappearance of a viable A League which hampers player development and return to fitness of an injured player. In Europe we compete with Celtic provinces funded by their Unions and wealthy French teams as well as referees with a different understanding of the rules.
The system as it stands is a farce, most of the players are not overpaid but in a team game it is ridiculous that one man should earn treble the salary of some of his team mates, he is unlikely to be contributing three times as much on the pitch.
Surely it will not be long before a major club with spiralling debts of 40/50 million or more goes broke as their backer for whatever reason pulls out, the level of debt will prevent the sale to another sugar daddy and maybe then and only then will the game we love be sorted out.

[jgriffin]

Probably the most succinct summary, which coupled with Oz's article last week
http://tinyurl.com/y9bx85x6
about the breakdown mess, pretty well sums up the sorry state of elite rugby in this country.

[LE18]

A lot has been spoken here about salaries etc, we have held some daft prediction/surveys etc in the past, what about guess the salary of each member of our team? How does our budget add up? Bet there would be some very wide difference of opinions as seen already by GFs guessers!

[voice of the crumbie]

The salary cap is a joke, it was designed to ensure level playing field and prevent clubs trying to compete and bankrupting themselves in the process, it worked to a certain extent then that nice man Mr Craig at Bath somehow persuaded the Premiership to have Marquee players thereby negating the level playing field idea. The known but not admitted abuses of the system was supposedly solved moving forwards by raising the cap considerably with little or no thought given to where the money was coming from other than the deep pockets of the obscenely rich sugar daddies. There are clubs or businesses that develop or are developing grounds and sustainable businesses, Exeter, Worcester, Northampton, Tigers for example and then there are others that just seem to be accumulating massive debt year on year Saracens, and Bath for example without really giving their paying customers suitable accommodation. The Wasps system I do not understand how it will work out so I wait and see. The result of the increased wage cap has seen agents demanding more for their charges, the reduction in playing squads and the disappearance of a viable A League which hampers player development and return to fitness of an injured player. In Europe we compete with Celtic provinces funded by their Unions and wealthy French teams as well as referees with a different understanding of the rules.
The system as it stands is a farce, most of the players are not overpaid but in a team game it is ridiculous that one man should earn treble the salary of some of his team mates, he is unlikely to be contributing three times as much on the pitch.
Surely it will not be long before a major club with spiralling debts of 40/50 million or more goes broke as their backer for whatever reason pulls out, the level of debt will prevent the sale to another sugar daddy and maybe then and only then will the game we love be sorted out.

Can only agree with you John. It might be helpful if Bath, Sarries or Wasps went bust. It might just make Prem Rugby sit up and take notice.

[BFG]

The salary cap is a joke, it was designed to ensure level playing field and prevent clubs trying to compete and bankrupting themselves in the process, it worked to a certain extent then that nice man Mr Craig at Bath somehow persuaded the Premiership to have Marquee players thereby negating the level playing field idea. The known but not admitted abuses of the system was supposedly solved moving forwards by raising the cap considerably with little or no thought given to where the money was coming from other than the deep pockets of the obscenely rich sugar daddies. There are clubs or businesses that develop or are developing grounds and sustainable businesses, Exeter, Worcester, Northampton, Tigers for example and then there are others that just seem to be accumulating massive debt year on year Saracens, and Bath for example without really giving their paying customers suitable accommodation. The Wasps system I do not understand how it will work out so I wait and see. The result of the increased wage cap has seen agents demanding more for their charges, the reduction in playing squads and the disappearance of a viable A League which hampers player development and return to fitness of an injured player. In Europe we compete with Celtic provinces funded by their Unions and wealthy French teams as well as referees with a different understanding of the rules.
The system as it stands is a farce, most of the players are not overpaid but in a team game it is ridiculous that one man should earn treble the salary of some of his team mates, he is unlikely to be contributing three times as much on the pitch.
Surely it will not be long before a major club with spiralling debts of 40/50 million or more goes broke as their backer for whatever reason pulls out, the level of debt will prevent the sale to another sugar daddy and maybe then and only then will the game we love be sorted out.

Do the Premiership clubs not get a say (vote) regarding the salary cap, I always assumed everything was done democratically and therefore any increases etc are sanctioned by all!

[Roly]

The salary cap is a joke, it was designed to ensure level playing field and prevent clubs trying to compete and bankrupting themselves in the process, it worked to a certain extent then that nice man Mr Craig at Bath somehow persuaded the Premiership to have Marquee players thereby negating the level playing field idea. The known but not admitted abuses of the system was supposedly solved moving forwards by raising the cap considerably with little or no thought given to where the money was coming from other than the deep pockets of the obscenely rich sugar daddies. There are clubs or businesses that develop or are developing grounds and sustainable businesses, Exeter, Worcester, Northampton, Tigers for example and then there are others that just seem to be accumulating massive debt year on year Saracens, and Bath for example without really giving their paying customers suitable accommodation. The Wasps system I do not understand how it will work out so I wait and see. The result of the increased wage cap has seen agents demanding more for their charges, the reduction in playing squads and the disappearance of a viable A League which hampers player development and return to fitness of an injured player. In Europe we compete with Celtic provinces funded by their Unions and wealthy French teams as well as referees with a different understanding of the rules.
The system as it stands is a farce, most of the players are not overpaid but in a team game it is ridiculous that one man should earn treble the salary of some of his team mates, he is unlikely to be contributing three times as much on the pitch.
Surely it will not be long before a major club with spiralling debts of 40/50 million or more goes broke as their backer for whatever reason pulls out, the level of debt will prevent the sale to another sugar daddy and maybe then and only then will the game we love be sorted out.

Can only agree with you John. It might be helpful if Bath, Sarries or Wasps went bust. It might just make Prem Rugby sit up and take notice.

The way Tigers are going, they'll be bust long before the likes of Bath, Saracens and Wasps, and I doubt Premiership Rugby will give a stuff.