Wasps in the mire - now in administration

[Rugbygramps]

GB72 and there in lies the issue. Do you need to get people interested in the sport via tv or will they just attend first, a chicken and the egg scenario if you like. My worry is where are these extra bums on seats going to come from, I just don’t see the interest out there. IMO it’s no good saying get the players out to the schools, the teachers aren’t bothered and certainly aren’t going to be spending time outside school hours, family member is a PE teacher at an inner city centre school. If if they did and the child came home from school and said look dad I’ve got a free ticket for the rugby. You can come too but it’ll cost £25, and then the little one will want a programme and a burger and a drink, and by the time he’s parked the car that’s £40 for something he did not want to do. The cost of living is rising alarmingly people can’t afford it.
Unfortunately the bad news re the 2 clubs going into administration, and such as Steve Thompson documentary don’t help.

For me the one potential saviour in all this is Amazon. They are streaming more and more sport and if coverage is included in your Prime membership then it is good value.

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Unfortunately the bad news re the 2 clubs going into administration, and such as Steve Thompson documentary don’t help.

For me the one potential saviour in all this is Amazon. They are streaming more and more sport and if coverage is included in your Prime membership then it is good value.

Yep, there are problems that need addressing, more because lots of people love playing the game and need protecting from avoidable injuries.

Agree about Amazon or something like that, people need to see the game to get interested, then they might go...

[GB72]

GB72 and there in lies the issue. Do you need to get people interested in the sport via tv or will they just attend first, a chicken and the egg scenario if you like. My worry is where are these extra bums on seats going to come from, I just don’t see the interest out there. IMO it’s no good saying get the players out to the schools, the teachers aren’t bothered and certainly aren’t going to be spending time outside school hours, family member is a PE teacher at an inner city centre school. If if they did and the child came home from school and said look dad I’ve got a free ticket for the rugby. You can come too but it’ll cost £25, and then the little one will want a programme and a burger and a drink, and by the time he’s parked the car that’s £40 for something he did not want to do. The cost of living is rising alarmingly people can’t afford it.
Unfortunately the bad news re the 2 clubs going into administration, and such as Steve Thompson documentary don’t help.

For me the one potential saviour in all this is Amazon. They are streaming more and more sport and if coverage is included in your Prime membership then it is good value.

They are but mainly at international level. I cannot see a TV deal that is going to pay more than we get now. That is what Scottish football get and I suspect that gets them more subscriptions and ad revenue than rugby ever will at club level.

Simple fact is that if there are not enough dedicated fans willing to turn up on match day, rugby is dead as a professional sport at club level. TV money does not even pay the playing staff wage bill. As for the cost of living, that is a red herring. We had these problems with attendance well before that was even a phrase.

[Rugbygramps]

GB72 and there in lies the issue. Do you need to get people interested in the sport via tv or will they just attend first, a chicken and the egg scenario if you like. My worry is where are these extra bums on seats going to come from, I just don’t see the interest out there. IMO it’s no good saying get the players out to the schools, the teachers aren’t bothered and certainly aren’t going to be spending time outside school hours, family member is a PE teacher at an inner city centre school. If if they did and the child came home from school and said look dad I’ve got a free ticket for the rugby. You can come too but it’ll cost £25, and then the little one will want a programme and a burger and a drink, and by the time he’s parked the car that’s £40 for something he did not want to do. The cost of living is rising alarmingly people can’t afford it.
Unfortunately the bad news re the 2 clubs going into administration, and such as Steve Thompson documentary don’t help.

For me the one potential saviour in all this is Amazon. They are streaming more and more sport and if coverage is included in your Prime membership then it is good value.

They are but mainly at international level. I cannot see a TV deal that is going to pay more than we get now. That is what Scottish football get and I suspect that gets them more subscriptions and ad revenue than rugby ever will at club level.

Simple fact is that if there are not enough dedicated fans willing to turn up on match day, rugby is dead as a professional sport at club level. TV money does not even pay the playing staff wage bill. As for the cost of living, that is a red herring. We had these problems with attendance well before that was even a phrase.

I totally agree about the attendance being an issue well before current times, and I think at Leicester the less well informed spectators are shielded from this as they think that 18000 to 20000 is the normal attendance everywhere.
My point is that yes this problem has been there since the game turned professional, and with the current state of things that isn’t going to suddenly improve

[GB72]

GB72 and there in lies the issue. Do you need to get people interested in the sport via tv or will they just attend first, a chicken and the egg scenario if you like. My worry is where are these extra bums on seats going to come from, I just don’t see the interest out there. IMO it’s no good saying get the players out to the schools, the teachers aren’t bothered and certainly aren’t going to be spending time outside school hours, family member is a PE teacher at an inner city centre school. If if they did and the child came home from school and said look dad I’ve got a free ticket for the rugby. You can come too but it’ll cost £25, and then the little one will want a programme and a burger and a drink, and by the time he’s parked the car that’s £40 for something he did not want to do. The cost of living is rising alarmingly people can’t afford it.
Unfortunately the bad news re the 2 clubs going into administration, and such as Steve Thompson documentary don’t help.

For me the one potential saviour in all this is Amazon. They are streaming more and more sport and if coverage is included in your Prime membership then it is good value.

They are but mainly at international level. I cannot see a TV deal that is going to pay more than we get now. That is what Scottish football get and I suspect that gets them more subscriptions and ad revenue than rugby ever will at club level.

Simple fact is that if there are not enough dedicated fans willing to turn up on match day, rugby is dead as a professional sport at club level. TV money does not even pay the playing staff wage bill. As for the cost of living, that is a red herring. We had these problems with attendance well before that was even a phrase.

I totally agree about the attendance being an issue well before current times, and I think at Leicester the less well informed spectators are shielded from this as they think that 18000 to 20000 is the normal attendance everywhere.
My point is that yes this problem has been there since the game turned professional, and with the current state of things that isn’t going to suddenly improve

Agreed and that is why I believe that the first step should be to restrict the salary cap to a percentage of revenue. On that basis, not only can clubs not rack up tons of wage debt, owners also cannot buy success. To have the funding to succeed they need to get people through the turnstyles and that will mean clubs having to sell themselves properly to the communities they serve. You have an average gate of 5000, you are not going to be paying out the big wages for star names. That would also alleviate the need for an upper cap as increased wage spending would be a viable reward for developing a well run, well attended club.

[Hot_Charlie]

Great point by Chris Egerton last night. Potentially 3 things for sale with the Wasps saga and Wasps firmly the least attractive of the lot to a buyer which, considering one of them isn't "advertised" for sale, is an achievement!

1) the Arena
2) CCFC (not actually for sale, but if you buy the Arena you may as well buy Coventry City too)
3) Wasps

[GB72]

Great point by Chris Egerton last night. Potentially 3 things for sale with the Wasps saga and Wasps firmly the least attractive of the lot to a buyer which, considering one of them isn't "advertised" for sale, is an achievement!

1) the Arena
2) CCFC (not actually for sale, but if you buy the Arena you may as well buy Coventry City too)
3) Wasps

I saw that. When you looked at some of the interested parties you could see them wanting the arena and the football club as a long term investment with a hope of climbing the leagues or the Arena as a development prospect but nowhere could I see anyone who would have any interest in a loss making rugby club.

[mightymouse]

I think the key would be to get something ( probably the cup ) on free to air
That would get people interested at least then may be curious to come and see live once they see it can be exciting.
I advocated this for Women’s sport for many years and wondered why the BBC sat on their hands for so long when it was almost their to duty to promote it.
Now Women's sport is on the rise dramatically as a spectator event especially football but also short forms of Cricket like T 20 and The Hundred-and to a lesser degree rugby but that starting now I think.
The key was first showing stuff on free to air until a subscription offer comes in.
Thanks what I’d be pitching for if I were the rugby authorities

[GB72]

That would be great but free to air just do not want it. Plenty of opportunities in the past for free to air channels to pick up lower levels or lower interest sports on the cheap but they only want the crown jewel events. Now, if the deal for the 6 Nations included an obligation to show a live club game before, after or in between matches then they would have to think about it and that would help club rugby tap into the international fan base but that would mean England would need to negotiate hand in hand with the clubs and I suspect that would not happen. Imagine the amount who would watch a game if you had a Saturdy of lets say Wales v Ireland at 12.00 followed by Tigers v Sarries at 3.00 and England v France at 5.00. That would give the club match a massive showcase. It is all a pipe dream but it could work if all parties were willing. Certainly England will need to help more as the next step I can see is a cut in player wages that may start drivng them abroad and so out of Enland selection. I cannot see it being lon before club salaries plus England payments are less than being offered for club rugby in France.

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That would be great but free to air just do not want it.

Have they been offered it for free though??....

[GB72]

That would be great but free to air just do not want it.

Have they been offered it for free though??....

Can clubs afford to give away rights for free?

[johnthegriff]

Attendances at Leicester & Bristol regularly in the region of 20K, Saints, Gloucester, Quins, Bath, Exeter and possibly Saracens all between 10 and 15K. Newcastle and Sale lower but all showing improvement on the amateur crowd levels and possibly still improving. Worcester could given time and decent ownership could grow their gate. Wasps in Coventry were always going to struggle although the true Coventry RFC would have a chance.
Rugby is still big in Wales and there would be demand for club games Cardiff, Newport, Bridgend, Llanelli etc against the hated English. Viewing figures would never rival football but may well exceed those achieved by other minority sports or foreign games of little interest to most Brits.

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That would be great but free to air just do not want it.

Have they been offered it for free though??....

Can clubs afford to give away rights for free?

The odd prem game or cup games if it eventually puts more bums on seats. You've got to speculate to accumulate or something like that....

[TigerFeetSteve]

That would be great but free to air just do not want it.

Have they been offered it for free though??....

Can clubs afford to give away rights for free?

This is the dilemma. To gain interest in the sport, Free To Air is the biggest untapped market of sports fans. However FTA would be taking a medium term hit for 5 years or so to generate the interest.

The 6 nations does nothing to draw in new fans, to do that it need REGULAR games for the whole season, for me not even the PRC does that as it's not frequent enough.

IMO the only way is to put the league on FTA but that means taking a hit on income that the teams cannot afford.

The only way of funding it IMO (and this won't happen) DCMS removes crown jewel status of 6N on the promise that the league is fully FTA. RFU then rather than take that pie for themselves actually needs to fund the league till the fanbase is built in the league system.

[GB72]

Have they been offered it for free though??....

Can clubs afford to give away rights for free?

This is the dilemma. To gain interest in the sport, Free To Air is the biggest untapped market of sports fans. However FTA would be taking a medium term hit for 5 years or so to generate the interest.

The 6 nations does nothing to draw in new fans, to do that it need REGULAR games for the whole season, for me not even the PRC does that as it's not frequent enough.

IMO the only way is to put the league on FTA but that means taking a hit on income that the teams cannot afford.

The only way of funding it IMO (and this won't happen) DCMS removes crown jewel status of 6N on the promise that the league is fully FTA. RFU then rather than take that pie for themselves actually needs to fund the league till the fanbase is built in the league system.

Its a fair idea but can the RFU fund all of that from the 6 Nations revenue. Was the RFU itself nearly skint during covid despite having all of the Twickenham and England funding at its disposal. You also need channels willing to commit to putting live sport on every weekend as part of its schedule.

My fear has always been that PRTV was put in place as an emergency plan B just in case nobody offered a TV deal next time. I could easily see BT going all out on the European Competitions and ditching club matches much as they are doing with football.