Tigers vs Ulster - Teams up!!

[Smudge]

Well played Ulster, tough luck Tigers but if this is the last year of the HC
in this format I won't be sorry.
The playing field is getting increasingly uneven and unfair.
When I worked and played in Ulster their CLUBS were Dungannon etc.
This is supposed to be a club competition so why are we playing full Provincial teams anyway?
Four teams centrally funded by the IRU, They are able to pay huge salaries, rest their players before big games
and it's not going to get any easier for us.
The French have gone down the wendyball road spending obscene amounts of money
buying up all the top talent they can get their hands on.
We have a salary cap (for good reasons) which prevents us going down that road.
If we were to go on like this I doubt we can ever win anything again.
I certainly don't want to merge our clubs into regional teams to compete with them.(Remember the divisional sides?)
It's certainly time to walk away until we can compete on a level playing field.
Not sour grapes, (I have many friends in and from Ulster)they played well
but it's way past time to level the playing field.

[Greenwhiteandred]

My take on the game - two closely matched teams, really not much between them - Pienaar definitely made the difference and so on the day Ulster probably just deserved to edge it. However similar to the Bath game our tactics were perplexing. Kicking the ball away is pointless - Toby did a couple of good kicks out of hand but the rest were rubbish and YBY's box kicking was generally poor - not enough height or too much length to allow a decent kick chase. On top of that where has the forward ball carrying gone? Where are the pods of forwards running from depth , hitting the gain line and pulling in the defenders before going wide? We usually had one or two phases - generally to a stationary forward and then put the ball through the hands of the backs who had no space and an organised defene against them - with the speed of ball not really helping. I see a big difference between our play this year and in previous years where we definitely "earns the right" to go wide.

[ancientmariner]

[quote="Greenwhiteandred"] Toby did a couple of good kicks out of hand but the rest were rubbish

Also you can't get away from the fact that two errors by Toby - at opposite ends of the field - gave us a mountain to climb; dropping a scoring pass at the Goldsmiths end and the charge-down at the other.

[MrPartridge]

My take on the game - two closely matched teams, really not much between them - Pienaar definitely made the difference and so on the day Ulster probably just deserved to edge it.

I think that is a reasonable assessment of the game. I thought Will Greenwood was spot on with his final summing up in that small margins really make a difference at this level. Pienaar was imperious all day with one error (a kick straight into touch), Flood missed one kick at goal, was charged down and knocked on inside the 22 in the last 10 minutes… not saying TF didn't have a good game mind, just pointing out how fine the margins are.

Positives for me: much better defence than in previous weeks… Ulster didn't really look like scoring all game (aside from the charge down), don't think we lost a line out with good ball all game, best atmosphere at WR for a few years for me (a large part due to the brilliant travelling support)

Negatives: should have closed it out from 19-9, the Morris try identified the way to exploit their defence and we didn't try it again thereafter, more injuries - hope Tait/Crane are OK.

Not sure what others think but I feel we miss Castro a little. Others will disagree, but it is too much to ask the props to play 80 mins every game. Castro might have only been good for 30 minutes, but I suggest our scrum would have held up better in the last 10 minutes if he had been on the pitch.

Fully expecting a trip to Clermont now…

[seldomrong]

Haven't had time (nor energy) to read the other 258 posts but agree these games are decided on small margins and so it proved. Pienaar is a class act and was the stand out player.
Missed Tait under the high ball in the second half - Scott H struggled in that dept.
What annoyed me was the consistent offside from Ulster which clearly denied us time and space (which is an example of the fine margins) Eg Luke Marshall was generally offside when we had the ball, hardly ever coming from behind the back foot. Also there were usually several Ulster players offside when RP made a box kick - they were very clever but offside nonetheless.
Not denying that Ulster played better than us on the day and shaded it but cant help thinking what might have been if they were pulled up for the above - no doubt being as one-eyed as ever

[TigerLad]

Tactically we weren't the best. From where I was sitting Ulster always seemed very close to charging down Flood when he tried to clear so I was astounded when we kept doing it. His kicks weren't making that much ground so I think Youngs should have taken on the kicking responsibilities. Fair play to Ulster, they were better than us on the day. The one positive I had taken from this game was that we could go to Ravenhill and get revenge, but even that hasn't happened and we will now travel to Clermont or Toulon, I'd prefer Toulon but it's an almost impossible job either way. Am I the only one who hates choke tackles? They changed the law regarding mauls a few years ago so that mauls couldn't be taken down, so what do the teams do? They hold it up instead. It kills any momentum in the game and seems to be something created to exploit the rules of the game. I remember the tactic Saracens used where they would have 5 players in a line behind a ruck so the scrum half could put up a box kick without being charged down. That was abolished so why can't the choke tackle be scrapped aswell?

[GumpyOldFan]

The poor nature of our kicking from hand and lack of any chase seems to be a recurring weakness it seems to me. The number of times we allow the opposition to gather the ball unopposed and counter for tens of metres without contact costs us game after game. By contrast Ulster rarely allowed us the luxury of fielding the ball and organising an attack. Their kicks were delivered with superb distance and the hang time that allowed several of their team to be able to challenge for the ball. The coaching manuals may advocate territorial kicking from hand but I suggest we have ample evidence this year that the results do not justify the tactic

[Darc Tiger]

Happy with they effort the team put in, but we couldn't find a way to break their defence or sustain pressure with phases, and we failed to deal with their excellent kick and chase for the whole match. Defence was pretty pleasing though. In the end we lost to a great team due to one crucial error, but considering the season we have endured. It isn't too bad a result. We will get stronger and hopefully better, and then we can give the French a good crack. Looking like Montferrand though!

Crowd was outstanding.

[sapajo]

I remember when Sarries deployed the exact same kicking game against us in the premiership semi a few seasons ago. RC dealt with that by insuring two players were kept back to allow more options to deal with the highball and it worked. Strangely this tactic was not deployed to deal with the Ulster kicking game. I am somewhat bemused because RC said that we had spent all week in training to deal with it. Whatever we devised it failed miserably.

[Smudge]

Sapajo wrote:-

I remember when Sarries deployed the exact same kicking game against us in the premiership semi a few seasons ago. RC dealt with that by insuring two players were kept back to allow more options to deal with the highball and it worked. Strangely this tactic was not deployed to deal with the Ulster kicking game. I am somewhat bemused because RC said that we had spent all week in training to deal with it. Whatever we devised it failed miserably.

But who was the backs coach then.......................?

[Hinckley Bob]

A cracking game between two evenly matched sides, where Pienaar was the difference. I felt really sorry for Toby when he was charged down, having given everything for the team despite clearly suffering after the first half knock. Tom Youngs similarly tackled and tackled until he could hardly walk. The injuries disrupted the side but Ulster were excellent, their line speed never dropped all the way through and there can be few complaints.

[sapajo]

A cracking game between two evenly matched sides, where Pienaar was the difference. I felt really sorry for Toby when he was charged down, having given everything for the team despite clearly suffering after the first half knock. Tom Youngs similarly tackled and tackled until he could hardly walk. The injuries disrupted the side but Ulster were excellent, their line speed never dropped all the way through and there can be few complaints.

The Ulster kicking game and line speed were both very impressive. That said, it pains me to say we lamentably remain bereft of both

[Big Dai]

Back from a Huge steak at the "Shires" with the old man. I watched the game..........A close battle between two closely matched sides. Tigers were very unlucky with injuries (Again) Crane, Tait, and Kitch were big losses, as was Tom Youngs later on. Three Floody moments changed the game for me. The charge down (of course) and the missed pen, But also a snatched at pass could have resulted in a try. Use of subs baffled me a bit. Owen on for the last seconds was baffling..............plus the front row were left knackered for one crucial scrum. I did actually quite like the Mafi, Salvi, Gibbo axis in the back row......may making the TTE versus Icabod argument superfluous. We've as much chance of :censored: Clermont away as we have of Sarries at home.................so bring it on!

[Big Dai]

Back from a Huge steak at the "Shires" with the old man. I watched the game..........A close battle between two closely matched sides. Tigers were very unlucky with injuries (Again) Crane, Tait, and Kitch were big losses, as was Tom Youngs later on. Three Floody moments changed the game for me. The charge down (of course) and the missed pen, But also a snatched at pass could have resulted in a try. Use of subs baffled me a bit. Owen on for the last seconds was baffling..............plus the front row were left knackered for one crucial scrum. I did actually quite like the Mafi, Salvi, Gibbo axis in the back row......may making the TTE versus Icabod argument superfluous. We've as much chance of Clermont away as we have of Sarries at home.................so bring it on!

Oh come on censor! gear (blank) bel ing?..........censored? That really is quite trite!

[jacothelad]

Well played Ulster, tough luck Tigers but if this is the last year of the HC
in this format I won't be sorry.
The playing field is getting increasingly uneven and unfair.
When I worked and played in Ulster their CLUBS were Dungannon etc.
This is supposed to be a club competition so why are we playing full Provincial teams anyway?
Four teams centrally funded by the IRU, They are able to pay huge salaries, rest their players before big games
and it's not going to get any easier for us.
The French have gone down the wendyball road spending obscene amounts of money
buying up all the top talent they can get their hands on.
We have a salary cap (for good reasons) which prevents us going down that road.
If we were to go on like this I doubt we can ever win anything again.
I certainly don't want to merge our clubs into regional teams to compete with them.(Remember the divisional sides?)
It's certainly time to walk away until we can compete on a level playing field.
Not sour grapes, (I have many friends in and from Ulster)they played well
but it's way past time to level the playing field.

Sorry man but most of this is rubbish. Ulster can't and do not pay huge salaries. If we did, we'd have been able to keep Afoa who is moving to Glos. on a salary that would keep 20% of our squad and Tom Court gong to Irish for more money.

The Ulster budget is a fraction of that which Tigers enjoy. Ulster have a senior squad about the same size as Tigers', some of the Ulster players in it wouldn't get a job at Tigers as stewards never mind players.

Even our senior players are paid relatively modestly. Only those centrally contracted players such as Tommy Bowe and Rory Best would be on serious dosh. The IRFU give Ulster 100,000 each towards Pienaar's, Afoa's and Muller's salaries. Ulster have to find the rest. No sugar daddies or share holders to boost the coffers or 24,000 paying customers and huge sponsorship from Caterpillar and RFU payments. Our players also do not benefit from the tax break available to the rest of Ireland. As for the nonsense of 'we shouldn't be playing provincial sides,' that is in effect what all major clubs are. The Midland Division on it's own - one of 7 in the RFU's purview - has 230 clubs and 350,000 registered players. Tigers, Saints and Worcester have this hinterland from which to scout, coach and develop their new players and Tigers have enough money to fill the missing spots with high quality overseas players like Ayerza, Mafi et al. Ulster have about 20 schools who play rugby from which to refresh the squads. For example, 6 of Ulster's current squad all played in the same M.C.B. school team. The whole of Ireland has only 205 clubs and - including 40,000 primary school children - has a registered player base of about 155.000 players. The rugby playing population of Ulster is very small, based around about 20 or so state grammar schools and their rugby products. Catholic Maintained schools being culturally Irish, don't play rugby at all and the State Secondary schools invariably play soccer exclusively. GAA takes about 45% of the eligible age group and soccer takes up most of the rest. Ulster make the best of what they have.
Not 'sour grapes' indeed. Enough to make a very large glass of 'whine'.