Doghashadhisday wrote:A tad bit OTT. He may be a bit of a plonker and I don't like him at club level but for country he rarely let's us down
Just three yellow cards for England, I think, and a missed WC with his gouging ban (and whatever other games he has missed out on with his 47 weeks, and counting, of bans).
Though he's had a few close calls - his off the ball elbow on McCaw for example could easily have been a yellow if it had been spotted.
It's his previous that will count against him, I expect. But we'll know soon enough either way.
And it is interesting that some forwards from all pro clubs spend their whole careers in similar playing situations and never see a card of any colour for any violent conduct (rather than 'professional fouls' like killing the ball). They just seem to be able to take whatever the opposition hands out, without any form of retaliation.
It's amazing self-restraint when you think about it - but it's one of the things that sets the very best apart, I suppose.
Interesting that D. Armitage has his ban increased from 8 to 12 weeks because he is "an habitual offender" with "an appalling disciplinary record".
Given that Hartley had a red in Dec 2012 for punching Rory Best, and red in May 2013 in the Prem Final, and last week's red in 2014, all of which are current on his record, will he get similar treatment to Armitage?? And indeed, should we take odds on his next victim in 2015 ??!!
tigercaspian wrote:Interesting that D. Armitage has his ban increased from 8 to 12 weeks because he is "an habitual offender" with "an appalling disciplinary record".
Given that Hartley had a red in Dec 2012 for punching Rory Best, and red in May 2013 in the Prem Final, and last week's red in 2014, all of which are current on his record, will he get similar treatment to Armitage?? And indeed, should we take odds on his next victim in 2015 ??!!
What with Fatty Barnes defending him (surprise, surprise!) and Lancaster vowing to stick by him he'll likely only get a suspended sentence.
Hasn't rugby got a bit febrile these days? Gone are the fun days with a bit of handbags. Hartley would've been dealt with quite briskly at the next scrum by MJ dropping an arm and knocking him cold in the old days. The amateur womens game seems the last repository of intentional violence, everything else is so sanitised.
Leicester Tigers 1995-
Nottingham 1995-2000
Swansea (Whites) 1988-95
A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.
Funnily enough JG one of my Stains pals actually said to me after the game something like "previously it wouldn't have been a red and at the next scrum one of your boys would have 'had a word' with Dylan to sort it out"
Seemed fair to me!
jgriffin wrote:Hasn't rugby got a bit febrile these days? Gone are the fun days with a bit of handbags. Hartley would've been dealt with quite briskly at the next scrum by MJ dropping an arm and knocking him cold in the old days. The amateur womens game seems the last repository of intentional violence, everything else is so sanitised.
Put it down to TV. They would much rather focus on something like that than a brilliant piece of play.
I don't seem to recall things being so nasty between us and Saints before Dorian West went there from us? Maybe he and Cockers need to have a 'clear-the-air' session in the interests of good rugby? I agree with all who said it was on the whole a cracking game of rugby: two good teams playing their hearts out, and, sadly, the current best team won.
exg922 wrote:
Saints fan in peace - Clarke's disciplinary record is very good since the hawkins incident. Your statement would be like me saying I don't want to see Tuilagi playing for England in case he loses his cool again or brings the country into disrepute by diving into a river. I'd be lying as I think a Burrell Tuilagi partnership could cause havoc, but I don't understand why Tigers fans can't move on from this? Hawkins is still playing isn't he?
Hawkins is much diminished in his playing ability and his earning capacity. Rugby is Hawkins' livelihood. Clarke caused it, deliberately or completely recklessly many would say. Saints supporters, you included, can't seem to get your heads around this.
It would be very hard to prove that - he's always been a Premiership squad player, whether at Bath, Leicester or Newcastle. He's always been second or third choice back-up. Arguably he's at the same level now as he was before his injury.
Whilst Clark's actions were appalling, let's not pretend that he brutally ended Hawkins' career.
Disagree ref Hawkins. This was before the emergence of OTY as a first team player and Hawkins had been having a very strong season, and could have been in the mix certainly for Saxons recognition. In that respect I agree that Clark's action may have seriously compromised his playing career, and certainly his next contract as Briggs came in to replace him.
That said, Calum Clark served his ban, and has kept his nose clean since, so he can't be criticised for that. I was quite impressed by his performance on Saturday. As a club we may always hold a little resentment, but by the letter of the law he has a right to continue.
A week reduction for mitigating circumstances! Those presumably being the guy is an idiot without a brain. Sorry, I FORGOT. He "plays on the edge" . Not a criminal thug who has bitten someone, gauged someone's eye, called a ref a "f...in g cheat and now elbowed someone in the face. What a role model he is for the young hookers in this country. Not. Joke decision.
Strange, half of me wanted to see a huge ban. But the other half kind of knew that he wasn't going to get long. If you want conspiracy theory's, what did West Noddy say to Wiggy as he went past and who is the current England Number 2?
He elbowed Smith but was never getting huge ban, that's sport, illegal and red mist ridden, but that's saints v tigers...let's move on and make sure we turn sale over and the. Utterly paste Bath..I want to go to work with my usual smugness!
Actually I was happy with the red card - it wasn't his fault we lost!
The guy is a complete wassock on the pitch, but you have to remember we had our own 'wind him up' merchant in Julian, although he was far more 'gentleman Jules' in his approach to dealing with miscreants. Off the park Hartley has been exemplary (unlike, say, Care or Armitage D). Three weeks is quite enough IMHO, and as I previously stated, in the 'old days' he would've simply had a facial rearrangement later in the match himself to even things up.
Leicester Tigers 1995-
Nottingham 1995-2000
Swansea (Whites) 1988-95
A game played on grass in the open air by teams of XV.
