England Team for NZ

[POSTIGER]

It's a very physical line-up but very one-dimensional. There is no 'plan B' as far as I can see and New Zealand tend to devour one-dimensional teams.

I have nothing against Ayoola Erinle but we're scraping the barrel if he's in the starting XV - he didn't play regularly for Leicester or Wasps!

[POSTIGER]

On a different note, the constant chopping and changing of players isn't doing anyone any favours at all. I understand that the team has to be tweaked here and there but can you tell me what the long-term strategy is? We try one thing then give it up almost immediately. We'll never make progress like this.

[k1]

Agree that chopping and changing does no-one any good. I made a similar point after the Aussie game that wholesale changes are no good, and I don't think constant tinkering is brilliant either. England did win against Argentina and, while it was ugly and NZ will pose a greater threat, why not stick with a team that won its last game?

Erinle/Hipkiss basically rules the back 3 out of the game. Shaw, for all his heroic efforts for the Lions, is in the twilight of his career and I fear he won't be able to replicate past performances.

As for "strangling" NZ, even if England do, Carter is such a masterful game manager that he can react to any situation and will turn it around. Expect NZ to compete at the set piece, but will still be quicker to the breakdown and will have a better kicking and running game. NZ to win by 10.

[Bill W (2)]

NZ to win by 10.

As few as that?

At least 20 I fear!

[tigerfeet13]

Oh Dear,

Johnno seams nearly as devoid of a coherant plan as Gordon Brown.

The positives...er...No Vickery! (Yes I do know he is injured!)

Great player though Shaw is, should that be was? it is hardly a positive forward looking move.

Dropping SG for Ayoola. Is there any creativity anywhere?

'Worse'ley for Croft. I know the England style doesn't suit Crofty but oh dear.

I'll record this one to watch on fast forward as I can't see there being many England highlights.

Please, Please, Please prove me wrong Martin & co!

[Bill W (2)]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/8367219.stm

NZ have made 13 changes.

Maybe England should have!

My earlier estimate of a 20 point margin may prove optimistic.

[TigerCam]

It is a 'damage limitation' side that will get turned over again and again 50+ points for the ABs.

[fleabane]

Despite us all being told that the England coaches are united, it seems to me that Wells has won (again).

I thought that Johno would have some ambition - this "we must not lose whatever the cost" approach will never allow an inventive, spirited team to develop. But let us remember that even the '03 team were far from being the most imaginative of all time, although they did have leaders; where are the leaders today?

Johno still has to develop as a coach/manager, and stop thinking like a player. Sooner or later he will realise that the coaching team needs very close examination (business speak for change). He needs to ask why players can do the job for their clubs but fail abjectly in an England shirt - it isn't just a matter of their ability. What are the coaches doing?

Could go on............and on..............................

[westy154]

I'm beginning to wonder whether all of Johnno's coaching staff shouldn't be non-English. It's the only way we are going to break this cycle of thinking that frankly does us no favours in the modern professional world.

The one brief sojourn we've had with the non-traditional approach to English rugby was 2001 to 2003 (Woodward, crazy fella that he is, had some fresh ideas, wanted to do things differently, wanted to score tries as well as defend well), and we did quite well in that time as I remember.

Let's break the cycle, let's think differently.

[Bill W (2)]

I'm beginning to wonder whether all of Johnno's coaching staff shouldn't be non-English. It's the only way we are going to break this cycle of thinking that frankly does us no favours in the modern professional world.

The one brief sojourn we've had with the non-traditional approach to English rugby was 2001 to 2003 (Woodward, crazy fella that he is, had some fresh ideas, wanted to do things differently, wanted to score tries as well as defend well), and we did quite well in that time as I remember.

Let's break the cycle, let's think differently.

Got to start higher. Remember Sir Clive went because Baron would not give him one half of what he eventually gave Randrew.

Randrew cannot admit that the EPS arrangements are wrong. Baron cannot admit that his appointment of Randrew and war with PRL was wrong.

Problem will not be solved until Baron and Randrew go - may even require Thomas to go. They are part of the problem not part of the solution.

[G.K]

Agreed - Andrew and Barron are a hinderance to progress.

[vinniechan]

The team in uninspiring but I don't think it's as bad as people make out of.
Worsely: One dimesional but with Moody proving that he's a far more crafty and all round player than he gets credit for, I think that will make up.
Erinle + Hipkiss: you get what you expect. But seeing playing two distributors didn't work, perhaps bringing a basher closer to the line will be more effective. One really big down side: we don't have another established kicker on the field, even more dire when Jonny has lost quite some kicking distance.
Locks: we all know what the problem is. If MJ doesn't intend to change it, this is the best we can get.
Tait: When will people start to realise he is not as light as people make of him? He weights more than Jamie Noon, and if he was good enough not to leak in the mid field at AGAINST THE BOKS IN THE RWC FINAL (who happened to have big names in the mid field like BUTCH JAMES, JDV and JACQUE FOURIE) why are we paranoid that he might get run over?
Lawes: Same situation with Tait.
Croft: Same situation with Tait. The most obvious talent in your team somehow turned mediocre overnight.

[trendylfj]

you have to fell some symphathy for MJ with the resources not available to him but you also have to question some of his decisions re selection.
Monye/Banahan both had very 2 poor games.
Hipkiss was solid but really did not do much
Geraty was what he is - unpredicable and make poor decisions at times and brilliant ones sometimes.
Wilkinson's distribution was good but out of hand kicking was the worst I have seen for some time.
Service from either scrum half was slow until the 2nd half of E v Arg when they began to ignore the pod and began to move it much quicker.
Front 3 probably the best available but they are 2nd rate (as a 3)
Not impressed with Borth as a captain - he is certainly no MJ either as a player or inspirational leader - restricts options here as long as he is capt. Would have like to see Deacon/Lawes at some time in the autumn games as a possible combination for the future. Moody as Captain???????
Leaving Croft out makes a big hole in line out options but hasn't had a good series.

Is this not the start of what is to come re so many overseas players taking places in EP thus depriving Eng qual players of learning the trade and reducing the available pool

[mike]

Erinle - 'a good ball carrier' . What Planet are they on ? whenever he played for us he couldn't even hold on to the thing !