THE BIG DEBATE

westy154 · Post by **westy154** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:17 pm

I've often thought that. For someone who is supposed to be so good at his job, they did seem to have their injury problems.

I have often wondered too if a change of club and scene would clear up Jonny's injury problems? You sometimes find that a new fitness regime in new surroundings do players the world of good.

I'd still have him if we could afford him and accommodate him. On form he can still be a world beater.

adamv6 · Post by **adamv6** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:19 pm

I sincerely hope Blackie is not coming to Tigers, his record with Jonny is hardly a ringing endorsement

Go on Nells, please expand on this. Is this your opinion or hard fact?

Blackie has assisted JW in changing his kciking style to stop injury, changing his tackling style to stop injury, helped him mentally overcome all his injuries and is deemed by many rugby players and coachs as one of the best motivational speakers in the game.

Not really a ringing endorsement really.....

Nells · Post by **Nells** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:03 pm

Adamv6

How many non England games has Jonny played since the 2003 world cup. Not a lot.

On several occaisons he has been brought back for 1 or 2 games only to then have several months off.

I would judge a fitness coach by his ability to get fit players on to the pitch on a regular basis. Admittedly some are more injury prone than others. Jonny is not a good advert for his fitness coach.

If keeping a player fit for half a dozen games a season is a ringing endorsment of his talents I hate to think what size squad you'd need if they all only played a handful of games

adamv6 · Post by **adamv6** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:26 pm

Nells, you are focussing your argument around one player and one player alone.

JW was the only top class Fly Half Newcastle have had for about 7 seasons. He has been rushed back on many occasions (something that has been often lamented on this forum) where is would have been better for him to recover fully before playing again.

Steve Black is not only JW's fitness coach, but Newcastles. There fitness has always been excellent under him. He was also the lions fitness coach in 2001. He was also the NUFC fitness coach, and many of the toon army would be overjoyed to see him return.

g · Post by g » Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:45 pm

I thought Tigers had just lost one fitness coach with another one joining can't think of their names so why would Tigers go for Black anyway.

Bill W · Post by **Bill W** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:53 pm

Jeff Probyn's rake on it:

http://tinyurl.com/3csskz

Kinoulton · Post by **Kinoulton** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:11 pm

Bill W wrote:Jeff Probyn's rake on it:

Are there leaves on the pitch?

big john · Post by **big john** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:09 am

I have to agree with Adamv6 on the matter, newcastle have a history of depth at flyhalf. By this i mean always had a bck-up 10 but they were needed to play 12 or 15 D Walder and now T Flood and JW brother Mark covered 10 alot but he was an outside center so it was a big step for him, it has always been the Falcons way to push JW back for big games or lack of players to do the job this has always ended up in putting him back on the self for a few more weeks. As in another post about Harry Ellis the view is how good the club are being about not pushing him back Tigers do there very best to let the players recover before playing and that would help JW so much.

Easty · Post by **Easty** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:19 pm

JW is a quality FH, when people say he's not as good as he was, the comparison is normally back to his England performances & not his Newcastle ones and there lies an important issue.

I have for some time felt that along with the 'rushing back' issue, Jonny's Newcastle career has been during Rob Andrew's tenure which, for 10 years was ~ "we're a young side, building for the future" and has therefore never played behind a solid, let alone dominant pack like he did in his England prime.

We all know the character of the man & therefore must assume that when he did play, he just tried too hard and did too much, which inevitably led to excessive injuries.

So, put him behind our 'half decent' pack, with the pressure off a little and I'm fairly sure we'd see a far better and creative JW.

As for JMH, people seem to think he's getting a run out at 10, I know he started there last weekend but IMHO he didn't look that comfortable and Beauxis is out injured so not sure how much that influenced it.

Personally I'd take either of them & try to hang on to Goode, I agree with the point made on another thread, that Goodey seems to be reacting very well to ML's leadership and is showing real signs of having a good season

Goffer3404 · Post by **Goffer3404** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:59 pm

Oh yes. Jeff Probyn. I didn't collapse the scrum, must have been Leicester. Rob will kick the goal to win the league for Wasps!
I was there. Wiley old boy he was too.
And the rivalry between Wasps and Tigers continues.
As for JW, great to see him at Tigers. I think his England days are numbered, just think what his presence and help would do to the Academy 10s!

murphy15 · Post by **murphy15** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:00 pm

Without wishing to sound harsh on the subject of everyone's favourite fly-half WC winner, that would surely be an enormous chunk of the salary cap spent on a guy who would probably be out injured more often than not.