Hartley must be next England captain!

[Stu_F]

I do not believe he used that word to the referee.

That may be true but the point was that Mr Barnes thought he did, and a couple of minutes earlier he'd had a clear warning from Mr Barnes and so it was an exceedingly stupid thing to have done and in the circumstances an error one would not want one's captain ever to make.

[L Smith]

1 incident? Should have had a red for punching Ashton, jumped off a ferry in New Zealand, assaulted a police officer. All incidents in a considerably shorter career to date, so yes, it is a sensible comparison.

You see the jumping off a ferry and the non-assault comparable to eye-gouging, head butting and calling the referee "a cheating **** among others?

No. It was "#@!/ing cheat"
And it was plausible that he was aiming it at OTY.
Still, I think Tom is a better scrummager than 'pop-up Dylan'.

[WhitecapTiger]

I do not believe he used that word to the referee. I do believe the Tigers head coach did use that word in discussion with the touch judge.

You believe correct. He called the ref a "******* cheat" - that's what he was sent off for. Whether he actually directed it at Barnes or not is academic.

Take off your cape, moral crusader.

[L Smith]

I do not believe he used that word to the referee. I do believe the Tigers head coach did use that word in discussion with the touch judge.

You believe correct. He called the ref a "******* cheat" - that's what he was sent off for. Whether he actually directed it at Barnes or not is academic.

Take off your cape, moral crusader.

The cape is purely to keep the rain off me in the clubhouse stand... oops: wrong thread

[Bowden Tiger]

I don't believe he should be the England captain.
He has spent nearly a year of his career banned, he is not the best hooker at Saints, he goes into a sulk when the game goes against him.

If we are to have an England team worthy of competing with the world's best, then we must move forwards, not backwards. Jones should be thinking long term, and looking at the young players coming through.

[TigerCam]

Putting DH captain may, just may, sort him out? I have dealt with many a 'liability' in the past and by giving them some responsibility can make the difference. While his track record on the pitch maybe below expectation, England need leaders at many positions. I doubt if he does get the C, it will be a long term one. There are too many youngsters out there from recent U18/U20 (as EJ has already eluded to) that maybe worthy of a crack? I'm sure if he does get it he will give it his all anyway?

[jgriffin]

I do not think Hartley is good enough or mentally tough enough to be captain. I would remind some on here that I defended him against the Jamie George ban (it was literally a nothing incident)and the Ferris business (Ferris has a track record for provoking retaliation, and the 'fish-hook' deserved a punch in the face). I have regard for the bloke as a good playerwho has been hard done by, especially the RWC ban by the Cumbrian Clot, but I don't see him as the present or future captain.

[Bill W (2)]

I have no problem with Hartley being given the Captains armband for one of the six Nations Games. Others (YBY, Ford, etc.) should be given the same opportunity!

[Sajerj]

I do not believe he used that word to the referee. I do believe the Tigers head coach did use that word in discussion with the touch judge.

You believe correct. He called the ref a "******* cheat" - that's what he was sent off for. Whether he actually directed it at Barnes or not is academic.

Take off your cape, moral crusader.

Please stop with the childish name calling WC. If people want to make a case in a debate against
Hartley then they can do it without making stuff up.

I actually agree Hartley should not be captain. And i actually favour George to be given a run as starter, with Tom from the bench.

But in a rugby context i like Hartley for the same reasons i like Tom. They are both deeply committed rugby players, loyal to their clubs and supporters, and away from the club put a lot into the game.

[drc_007]

Hartley has not played for six weeks since he was concussed. I'd be surprised if he was nominated before he has been given clearance to play again.

[Cagey Tiger]

Hartley's discipline record for England is as good as any forward could be expected to have. Is it two yellow cards in sixty games ? Something like that.

His problems have all been domestically.

Directly, yes, but somewhat irrelevant. How many more caps would he have had if he hadn't been banned for his "domestic" indiscretions? It doesn't matter where he misbehaves, the bans affect all matches. And given the length of bans he generally gets, some international games are always involved.

[Maidman]

I know this story has appeared on numerous websites and in the sports pages of most national newspapers, but I haven't seen any of them give their sources.

Personally, I don't have too much of a problem with Hartley being captain, as I've said before, I think he will only be keeping it warm ready for Itoje, and I kinda welcome a bit more aggression.

But I do wonder where this story has come from. Has Eddie leaked it to the press? Is someone testing the waters a bit? I mean, this could be a fuss about nothing, and Eddie might be looking in a completely different direction.

I think on form Hartley is probably still the best hooker at Saints, but I do think that his lay off with concussion has to be a concern, and I would agree that he would need to put in a few good performances in order to get picked for the squad.

One further aside, will Jones be limited as to the number of changes to the squad that he can make? Isn't there an agreement between the RFU and the Premiership that limits the number of changes that can be made to the England squad?

So in summary, my two queries are:
1. where did the media get this story?
2. will Eddie be able to make lots of changes to the squad.

(I'm starting to feel Christmassy - any one else?)

[Cagey Tiger]

Putting DH captain may, just may, sort him out? I have dealt with many a 'liability' in the past and by giving them some responsibility can make the difference.

I'm not sure his disciplinary track record as Saints captain backs this point of view.

And as regards his "f****ing cheat" comment, irrespective of who it was aimed at, and I agree that the evidence I have seen is not conclusive that it was at WB, it was a stupid thing to do so close to the ref and so soon after he had been spoken to by him.

One plus point that no-one has mentioned. If there are a lot of scrums, having your captain in the front row means that they do not see what is going on. DH could use his habit of "popping up" first to see what is going on around the pitch

[G.K]

Yes when he pops up he will be able to see the ref awarding yet another penalty against him.

Sorry but Dullan is just too dull to be captain, we've already tried having one of those and it didn't go too well did it?

[Will S]

I've not got a problem with his history. I just think it is very harsh on OTY, JG and all the other English hookers with international ambitions. Selecting DH as captain is basically saying the rest are competing for a spot on the bench. It is not as though DH is the run away front runner at hooker. My favoured position for captain is lock or back row. Here positions are slightly more up for grabs (if the captain is a lock there is still one other lock position to play for) and you are more likely to have your captain on the field for the full 80.

I still think that for 2015 we should pick on a game by game basis. Builds a core of leaders and hopefully an individual will rise to the top.